'Hazing' is a nice word for white kids who act violently - Page 2

FuzzieAlum · #16 05-22-2003, 06:50 PM

Honeykiss, I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand your last post. Maybe we are looking at the gang comparison from two different angles? I considered these high schoolers to be one gang initiating a new, younger set of members, and I thought you were looking at it the same way. Do you consider that they are one gang beating up on another instead?

Tom Earp · #17 05-24-2003, 10:53 PM

The "Black /White" comparison between Hazing and Gang Related situations is totaly out of Line and uncalled for!

Please, do belittle yourselves by trying to bring bigotry, stupidity or anyother racial tones into this!

I dont care what color you are, as I think WE ALL feel this was something that should not have been done!

It is lucky that these Moronic asswhole kids took videos! Do not say because they were white it is called hazing and gang initiation is not! That is B S!

"HAZING" has become a Pol. Correct word to cover a ton of things!

Color is becoming a factor on this site when many are trying to take it out!

Dont let your pigmentation be a problem, as it will be yours alone!

Finer Woman10-A-91 · #18 05-25-2003, 12:38 PM

Tom,
Why do you think the 2 should be separated? I think you are personalizing this situation. We are looking at perception and ways to change this type of biased reporting in the media.

Let's be honest...this was not the first time this form of initiation has taken place...BUT...this time it was caught on tape. MOST gang initiations are not videotaped, but this one was...and surely no one thought it was going to be viewed on the news.

*How many gangs do we associate with white suburban highschool kids?*

The secret is out. Yes, this was a gang initiation ritual, brutal, disgusting and labeled "hazing" instead of assault...BECAUSE it did not take place "in the hood" or "under the bridge" in the inner city, where this type of behavior is acceptable...and expected.

Race is an issue in life. The discussion of race matters will not go away, nor should it. We the college educated, are tasked to expose and figure out ways to address these issues in society. No, its not a comfortable topic, but it is worthy of discussion.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Earp
The "Black /White" comparison between Hazing and Gang Related situations is totaly out of Line and uncalled for!

Please, do belittle yourselves by trying to bring bigotry, stupidity or anyother racial tones into this!

I dont care what color you are, as I think WE ALL feel this was something that should not have been done!

It is lucky that these Moronic asswhole kids took videos! Do not say because they were white it is called hazing and gang initiation is not! That is B S!

"HAZING" has become a Pol. Correct word to cover a ton of things!

Color is becoming a factor on this site when many are trying to take it out!

Dont let your pigmentation be a problem, as it will be yours alone!

Honeykiss1974 · #19 05-25-2003, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
Honeykiss, I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand your last post. Maybe we are looking at the gang comparison from two different angles? I considered these high schoolers to be one gang initiating a new, younger set of members, and I thought you were looking at it the same way. Do you consider that they are one gang beating up on another instead?

I am looking at it from one group beating up another.
If this was the Cheerleading squad (for example) and juniors cheerleaders were made to come out for the powderpuff game and get beat up, then I could see were this example could be classified as hazing. But this was just "random" seniors inviting juniors to beat them up.

I guess some people are looking at this at the fact the "organization" that both groups (juniors and seniors) belonged to was the high school.

And again, even if this was some sort of organized group, why is the media calling this hazing and not assault?

Remember not you ( "you " in general and not specifically you Fuzzy), but the media?

***********

Tom, behaving in a brutual, savage manner is not mutually exclusive to just a certain group of people. Is just isn't.

James · #20 05-25-2003, 01:13 PM

I am sure I'll be repeating what other people have said . . .

I am not going to touch the minority angle much lol. Thats a tough one. I will observe that there is an awful high percentage of minorities versus whites in our prisons, but that might have as much to do with income and deserves another thread.

Obviously the video and the curse of 24 hour news has a lot to do with this situation. Any video will give you a lot more attention from the media.

The race issue aside the backstory is probably the most important factor in the determination of hazing versus asault.

In the perception of investigators here, this is a rite of passage situation between two recognized groups, juniors and seniors, in a recognized organization, a high school.

In a gang situation, as I believe fuzzie was saying, the group itself is considerd to be inherently ilegal and not any type of official organization.

And who makes the charges? The local prosecutors or DA's, so it depends on their take of the situation.

jharb · #21 05-25-2003, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
I am looking at it from one group beating up another.
If this was the Cheerleading squad (for example) and juniors cheerleaders were made to come out for the powderpuff game and get beat up, then I could see were this example could be classified as hazing. But this was just "random" seniors inviting juniors to beat them up.

I guess some people are looking at this at the fact the "organization" that both groups (juniors and seniors) belonged to was the high school.

At my high school we had a "freshman initiation week" where we had activities that could be construed as hazing depending on where you are from. We were made to push soda cans across the cafeteria floor with our noses, sing songs and dress up in costumes given to us by our senior "big sis". I went to an all girls catholic high school and if you didn't participate in the I-week activities you were looked down on. Most of the girls who refused to particpate ended up transferring before the end of the first semester.

Are you telling me this isn't hazing? The only group that we all belonged to was my high school, and yes this was a 99% white school in an affluent suburb. We didn't video tape what went on and what happened was no where close to what happened to those girls but in the same way there was after school activities that involved drinking and other risk management nightmares. If there had been video involved, trust me it would have made it on to the nightly news.

At our brother school the soccer team would duct tape their freshmen to the goal posts on the football field naked and kick soccer balls at them. They made the mistake of video taping this and the tape was leaked. That did make it on to the news. Now maybe because this was a sports team it was hazing and what I went through as a freshman wasn't. To me it sure felt like hazing when I was forced to push a soda can across the cafeteria floor with my nose while wearing a hat that had all kinds of things stuck to it and signs around my neck saying "I love seniors".

Jess

P.S. to those who say that those who were hazed are the ones who are generally the worst didn't meet my HS graduating class...when we were seniors we changed I-Week to just in-school activities that consisted of each day dressing a theme. We also participated to bond the two classes. We took a lot of flack from the sophomore and junior classes for our decision but we didn't want these freshmen humiliated like we were.

Tom Earp · #22 05-26-2003, 03:46 PM

I am not trying to seperate between the two!

It was stated earlier that in the white community it is hazing and in the ethnic community it is gang initiation!

Any way you want to call it, it is a hazing situation!

Do I condone Hazing--Hell No!!

Beleive me, there are gangs of white kids also. It is not just one or two societys!

Just because it was caught on tape and most are not, does not make it any better!

I am glad that it was on tape to show the world the stupidity and violence that does go on.

I just love how the parents are so against their little kiddies getting their butts in a ringer! Da!!!

starang21 · #23 05-27-2003, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
Hmm, the author does however make an interesting point....why is this incident called "hazing" instead of assault or (for lack of a better term) a violent beatdown? It's not like the juniors were "pledging" to join a high school organization (From reading post in the High School hazing thread)?

What really is the difference between what these girls did vs. gang jump-ins or activity? Could the only difference be the media's coverage? Has America just become immune to urban violence and just don't believe that the 'burbs are as safe as they think?

Well, even if other folks don't get it, this article did make me think about this?

i think if this was in an inner city neighborhood, this wouldn't even get any kind media attention. the kids would up and get sent to jail. the shit is assault, point blank. don't let them graduate...and give them the same exact punishment a 40 year old man would have gotten for beating down another 40 year old man. you let them off because they're in a rich white neighborhood, you're sending the wrong message. that shows that mommy and daddy can afford for you to act a fool as long as they have enough money to bail your dumbass out.

Tom Earp · #24 05-27-2003, 11:03 PM

Tom Earp
Moderator

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Kansas City, Kansas USA
Posts: 3984

You are reading this correctly!

They should get their diplomas for the work that they did and do jail time for in turn what they did!

I just love the parents of these little asswholes who sued over the whole thing when it was on tape for the whole world to see!

The parents ought to be sued by the victums for being dumb assed parents who have no damn control over their brats!

I do not care what damn neighbor hood they are from, they should be punished to the fullest!

__________________
LCA

Tom Earp
LXA LX Z # 1

Everyman A Man,
Every Woman A Woman,
Every Person A Person.
But Naught Without Labor.

FuzzieAlum · #25 05-28-2003, 02:55 PM

I guess they're looking at it as hazing because they were looking at it like I was, as one group beating up its newest members, not as a group beating up another one.

Obviously, I can't know what's going on in anyone else's mind, but I think they called it hazing because that was the first thing they thought of - genuinely and not as "what's the euphamism we can use." And then once it's the "hazing story," that's what it's going to keep on being called, whether or not anyone or everyone decides "assault" is a better term.

Jill1228 · #26 06-02-2003, 12:05 PM

AMEN brother! The parents need an azzwhuppin too for NOT punishing their kids. The offenders were not allowed to go to prom...boo EFFING hoo!

The parents created a prom for them!

They condoned that behaviour IMO!

Regardless of their race they should be UNDER the jail! And the parents should be locked up for providing the alcohol!

Glad they were "smart" enough to provide the video to incriminate themselves!

This should NOT be a black vs white thing!

This is a matter of kids who are not raised right and have NO home training!

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Tom Earp
Moderator

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Kansas City, Kansas USA
Posts: 3984

You are reading this correctly!

They should get their diplomas for the work that they did and do jail time for in turn what they did!

I just love the parents of these little asswholes who sued over the whole thing when it was on tape for the whole world to see!

The parents ought to be sued by the victums for being dumb assed parents who have no damn control over their brats!

I do not care what damn neighbor hood they are from, they should be punished to the fullest!

__________________
LCA

Tom Earp
LXA LX Z # 1

Everyman A Man,
Every Woman A Woman,
Every Person A Person.
But Naught Without Labor.

tunatartare · #27 06-24-2003, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LeslieAGD
Is this article about hazing vs. violence or black vs. white crimes?

I agree with LeslieAGD on this one: I don't think it's fair and reasonable to say that hazing is when "white kids behave badly" because there have been cases where NPHC sororities and fraternities have had their charters and/or actions questioned because of what was believed to be hazing. Since those are all historically black organizations, I don't think you can make a case to say that hazing is a term that is used for white people.