Delta Gamma Eliminates Legacy Policy

[TXDG]

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this:

1. I understand the need to level the playing field in higher education, the exclusive Greek system and society as a whole. We’ve all known unconnected PNM’s with stellar resumes & present well who have tough rushes and we’ve all known legacies who probably got a bid because of that. I would want my legacy to get a bid because she had found her home and they value and want her to be part of the chapter, not because of pushy alumnae or a legacy quota or whatever else has nothing to do with herself and her character.

2. I don’t like that they did away with 100% of special consideration for legacies. I would like to have seen DG still want a legacy introduction form and placement on the top bid list if carried to Pref. I would rather my legacy be cut after open house with no required ask back then to go all the way to Pref and not get a bid.

3. It’s confusing. Being a legacy IS a special connection. Having volunteered with your mom with the vision impaired or knowing your mom still vacations with her pledge sisters once a year or having visited your mom’s house on a college visit.....are legacies going to feel like they shouldn’t talk about that stuff and why it made them interested in DG? Will they feel like they aren’t even equal, but less desired than non-legacy pnms?

4. Without the entire NPC moving to this model, I fear it only hurts our legacies especially on competitive campuses. They are less important to DG but might still be released by other chapters who assume they want their legacy (ESPECIALLY with sitting sisters, or recently graduated sisters/cousins, or for chapter legacies).

I hope with the hope of expanding our sisterhood and leveling the playing field, we don’t shut a lot of legacies completely out of the Greek system.

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by TXDG

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this:

1. I understand the need to level the playing field in higher education, the exclusive Greek system and society as a whole. We’ve all known unconnected PNM’s with stellar resumes & present well who have tough rushes and we’ve all known legacies who probably got a bid because of that. I would want my legacy to get a bid because she had found her home and they value and want her to be part of the chapter, not because of pushy alumnae or a legacy quota or whatever else has nothing to do with herself and her character.

2. I don’t like that they did away with 100% of special consideration for legacies. I would like to have seen DG still want a legacy introduction form and placement on the top bid list if carried to Pref. I would rather my legacy be cut after open house with no required ask back then to go all the way to Pref and not get a bid.

3. It’s confusing. Being a legacy IS a special connection. Having volunteered with your mom with the vision impaired or knowing your mom still vacations with her pledge sisters once a year or having visited your mom’s house on a college visit.....are legacies going to feel like they shouldn’t talk about that stuff and why it made them interested in DG? Will they feel like they aren’t even equal, but less desired than non-legacy pnms?

4. Without the entire NPC moving to this model, I fear it only hurts our legacies especially on competitive campuses. They are less important to DG but might still be released by other chapters who assume they want their legacy (ESPECIALLY with sitting sisters, or recently graduated sisters/cousins, or for chapter legacies).

I hope with the hope of expanding our sisterhood and leveling the playing field, we don’t shut a lot of legacies completely out of the Greek system.

TXDG-I especially agree with your second point regarding legacies who have been invited to preference and where they would be placed on the bid list.

[TXDG]

Originally Posted by TLLK

TXDG-I especially agree with your second point regarding legacies who have been invited to preference and where they would be placed on the bid list.

That’s my biggest concern and also where other NPC groups who don’t share that same policy have had some REALLY angry alumnae and legacies. One NPC group on my campus was notorious for “cross cutting” their legacies on Pref Night (pre-RFM days when cross-cut was a real thing).

[carnation]

It's so cruel to raise a daughter with stories and songs from your sorority and she makes it to prefs--and gets dropped afterwards. Some sororities say they dropped the policy of listing them first on the bid list because there are so many legacies now. WTH? If you don't want them, don't ask them to prefs. Don't string them along! And if you know you do, please put them at the top of your list.

[GreekOne]

Originally Posted by TLLK

TXDG-I especially agree with your second point regarding legacies who have been invited to preference and where they would be placed on the bid list.

This is the part most upsetting to me as well. Thankfully my 3 daughters have gone through recruitment. It was peace of mind for me knowing that when the two who attended our preference parties they were at the top of the bid list. If there was worry about them getting cut after making it that far, it would have been excruciatingly painful for all involved.

[zTaalum]

Most organizations official policy on legacies is that they are invited back after round one and than after that it is up to the chapter. I see that more as a courtesy than as preferential treatment. I know for my particular organization if a legacy makes it to bid day there are protocols to follow but again nothing even close to being preferential treatment.

I definitely don't think this is the way to go and would be disappointed if my organization did the same. I have a daughter going through recruitment who was really interested in the DG chapter at her school and this has kind of changed things for her. Also many girls going through who aren't legacies are actually looking for that for their own future daughters.

There are more girls in chapters that are not legacies than are and if we keep watering everything down there will be no reason for sororities to even exist. Next thing you know it will be unfair to have grade requirements so grade cuts will go away or it won't be fair to give girls a leg up who were super involved in high school . We can all change our profile pictures to Save Harvard but really I don't think we a far from what they are pushing towards.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by zTaalum

We can all change our profile pictures to Save Harvard but really I don't think we a far from what they are pushing towards.

This.

We all say "XY Chapter has enough legacies going through to fill an entire pledge class". As someone stated, that doesn't happen. Not all the legacies rush. Not all the legacies want their legacy sorority. Not all legacies are a good fit. And we all know chapters of our orgs who are particularly unimpressed with legacy status and seem to have it in for legacies (i.e., they are not even extended the courtesy invitation) and cut them right off the bat.

I believe the statement said that this had been under consideration for some time. Well then, the timing of this decision couldn't have been worse. The under-rumblings of NPC is that they are concerned about lower PNM numbers what with COVID-19, especially at schools/CPCs that have not made a final decision about how the fall semester and recruitment will take place. So the prudent thing to do would be to ensure that ALL PNMs feel valued and welcomed, mail out flyers, advertise well, and hold online rush info sessions throughout the summer, so that the underrepresented (minorities, first gen college students) are informed. Be truthful about recommendations and specifically outline (as has been done here) how girls can go about finding recs. Be truthful about appropriate clothes to wear for each round (if there are any in-person rounds) and explain that even if rush is conducted virtually, they will need to be presentable (not look like they just rolled out of bed -looking at you my 6th grade students!) and they need to be able to hold an intelligent and interesting conversation.

I'm waiting for all the other sororities to join DG on the legacy death boat.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by zTaalum

if we keep watering everything down there will be no reason for sororities to even exist. Next thing you know it will be unfair to have grade requirements so grade cuts will go away or it won't be fair to give girls a leg up who were super involved in high school . We can all change our profile pictures to Save Harvard but really I don't think we a far from what they are pushing towards.

Yes. We want the involved, hard-working girls, not the ones who will ghost us after pledging so they can be with their boyfriends 24/7. We want the PNMs with strong recs that assure us that the girls are quality people who won't make hateful racist videos or haze PNMs on their own. We don't want girls like the ones in the "Weird Rush Stories" thread here on Greekchat.

And who are these small committees who are making these recent decisions? I know women from many sororities who are angry that they, as stakeholders, have not even been allowed input. These women are hardworking alums who have put in years of toiling for their sororities and they've never tried to force chapters into pledging anyone. Many sororities are going to lose some major, major donations.

And about the dropping of legacy advantages: we all have legacy songs. Will chapters now be discouraged from singing them? Will the word 'legacy' be dropped from the Greek vocabulary?

[TXDG]

Originally Posted by zTaalum

I definitely don't think this is the way to go and would be disappointed if my organization did the same. I have a daughter going through recruitment who was really interested in the DG chapter at her school and this has kind of changed things for her. Also many girls going through who aren't legacies are actually looking for that for their own future daughters.

There are more girls in chapters that are not legacies than are and if we keep watering everything down there will be no reason for sororities to even exist. Next thing you know it will be unfair to have grade requirements so grade cuts will go away or it won't be fair to give girls a leg up who were super involved in high school . We can all change our profile pictures to Save Harvard but really I don't think we a far from what they are pushing towards.

One, 18 year olds shouldn’t be rushing for future daughters they may not even have. I wasn’t a legacy and certainly wasn’t thinking about choosing “my legacy” when I went through rush. I didn’t even have children until my late 30’s. My chapter President who became a traveling consultant and has been a chapter advisor to multiple campuses since....has 3 sons.

I hope your daughter will consider DG) for her college experience and our sisterhood rather than what some guy’s sperm might produce for her in the future!

Two, legacies being equal to all other PNM’s isn’t watering everything down. Your stance that it’s the first step to lowering GPA or leadership standards is a straw man argument at best. At worst, it’s elitist bias that non-legacies (or proxy for non-white) PNM’s have lower grades and lower standards. This move by DG - like it or not - is to ensure that we are recruiting the highest quality women and that unconnected PNMs with stellar grades, leadership, friendship, & potential don’t “fall through the cracks” while less qualified legacies are ushered deeper into rush week.

I know we all think our sweet babies are perfect and that our legacies would be lucky to pledge them, but the reality is there are almost always 100 other girls with better grades, more volunteer hours, more honed leadership skills, stronger Recs, better fit for chapter personality, etc. As one of my sisters said yesterday, let our focus be on raising young women and promoting our Greek experiences. I would love for my daughter to become a DG but I would be equally thrilled for her to find HER HOME in any NPC sisterhood!

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by zTaalum

There are more girls in chapters that are not legacies than are and if we keep watering everything down there will be no reason for sororities to even exist. Next thing you know it will be unfair to have grade requirements so grade cuts will go away or it won't be fair to give girls a leg up who were super involved in high school . We can all change our profile pictures to Save Harvard but really I don't think we a far from what they are pushing towards.

No no no no no! Please stop with this nonsense. This is why I hesitated to comment on the NPC Community College Task Force thread... because I was so enraged at the mere suggestion that NPC sororities would be lowering their standards or would become obsolete because they considered a change.

Why would eliminating legacy policies on the national level = eliminating grade requirements? This makes no sense and is comparing apples and oranges. It reminds me of the people who argue, "We shouldn't allow gay marriage! Next thing you know, people will be allowed to marry their dog!"

Just no.

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

I'm torn about this. On one hand, I want sororities to be more inclusive for all women and I think eliminating the legacy preference helps chapters choose women for who they are and not for who their mom/sister/aunt/etc was. It's similar to colleges dropping legacy consideration in my mind, because like sororities college affiliation has historically been used to admit the white, affluent children of white, affluent people (and I've got some fascinating data on Harvard legacy admits if anyone's interested in seeing this in action).

On the other hand, I'm a legacy to ADPi through my mom and I *know* that the only reason I got that courtesy invite to the second round of recruitment was because of my connection. The other chapters that ADPi recruits against all dropped me, I didn't know a single woman in ADPi, and I absolutely did not and still don't fit that chapter's mold. I wasn't dumb when they kept inviting me back for recruitment rounds. My chapter also takes legacies very seriously and we tried our hardest to make as many want to join as we could. I'm eternally grateful to share my ADPi experience with my mom and my sorority journey wouldn't have been half as rich without my mom there for all of it.

I think the middle ground between these two ends is that individual chapters can still give legacies a preference if that's what they choose to do, rather than being mandated to do so by Delta Gamma. Obviously I'm not privy to DG's recruitment system but I'm sure there's a way a chapter could ensure legacies feel extra special and warm and fuzzy if they wanted to.

This! Individual chapters still have a say. They always have, regardless of what any national policy says. Either they like a legacy and want to keep her past second round (if national policy dictates she stay past the first) or they bring her through preference (knowing at that point national policy dictates she's "stuck").

I guess the question I have is this: who feels more hurt by this whole thing? Is it the legacy going through recruitment? Or is it mom who's upset because her daughter won't be her sister and is threatening to pull donations? I don't have the answer, but I'd be curious to know.

[naraht]

The change seems to be that while the NPC sororities have written rules regarding admittance of Legacies, any change makes them more likely to become more like the NIC which tends to have unwritten rules. The NIC fraternities (as far as I can tell) still care about Legacies, they just don't have those rules which are going to *bind* chapters to specific results.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by naraht

The change seems to be that while the NPC sororities have written rules regarding admittance of Legacies, any change makes them more likely to become more like the NIC which tends to have unwritten rules. The NIC fraternities (as far as I can tell) still care about Legacies, they just don't have those rules which are going to *bind* chapters to specific results.

I highly doubt that Delta Gamma's decision took note of anything having to do with becoming more like NIC fraternities. Your thoughts/opinions on the change are a bit of a stretch, to be polite. Rather simplistic thinking, also.

OK, I'm not weighing in on the legacies discussion. In years past I've expressed my opinions about legacies. I wasn't one, and I don't have any, so I technically don't have a dog in this fight. I do agree with carnation's statement about small committees making big decisions without involving stakeholders. I've seen plenty of that behavior in my own fraternity in recent years. I also appreciate all of TXDG's thoughtful comments.

[clemsongirl]

I'm torn about this. On one hand, I want sororities to be more inclusive for all women and I think eliminating the legacy preference helps chapters choose women for who they are and not for who their mom/sister/aunt/etc was. It's similar to colleges dropping legacy consideration in my mind, because like sororities college affiliation has historically been used to admit the white, affluent children of white, affluent people (and I've got some fascinating data on Harvard legacy admits if anyone's interested in seeing this in action).

On the other hand, I'm a legacy to ADPi through my mom and I *know* that the only reason I got that courtesy invite to the second round of recruitment was because of my connection. The other chapters that ADPi recruits against all dropped me, I didn't know a single woman in ADPi, and I absolutely did not and still don't fit that chapter's mold. I wasn't dumb when they kept inviting me back for recruitment rounds. My chapter also takes legacies very seriously and we tried our hardest to make as many want to join as we could. I'm eternally grateful to share my ADPi experience with my mom and my sorority journey wouldn't have been half as rich without my mom there for all of it.

I think the middle ground between these two ends is that individual chapters can still give legacies a preference if that's what they choose to do, rather than being mandated to do so by Delta Gamma. Obviously I'm not privy to DG's recruitment system but I'm sure there's a way a chapter could ensure legacies feel extra special and warm and fuzzy if they wanted to.

[Jen]

I have never really been on board with the idea of legacies. I don't see why my membership means someone I'm related to gets an advantage. As a PNM I'd rather be on equal footing with everyone than having an "edge" because I was expelled out of someone's uterus once.

[33girl]

I just hope this gets publicized REALLY REALLY A LOT so the other sororities take it into account and don’t all drop a girl because they assume she’ll be high up enough on her legacy chapter’s list.