White women in black sororities

[Finer Woman10-A-91]

Originally posted by username:

prettygyrl wrote:
"I HAVE SAID IT BEFORE AND I WILL KEEP SAYING IT THE FOUNDERS OF ALL THE BGLOS DID NOT HAVE WHITE PEOPLE IN MIND WHEN THEY STARTED THEIR ORGS AND I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT THEY EVER INTENDED ON WHITE MEMBERSHIP."

So are you saying that BGLOS should not allow white members? At the same time the BGLO founders were establishing these organizations there were also many other organizations which felt the same way you describe about black people. Does how these people (white/black founders) felt back then mean that we should not change this? Does this mean that all of society should not change either? Should we all forget about social progress and just go back to the way people thought 100 years ago? Is that what you really want? Segregation/separation?

Segregation is not always a bad thing...



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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

[cash78mere]

Finer Woman wrote:
"Segregation is not always a bad thing..."

I'm sorry but i have to disagree. you can't have it both ways. segregation is ALWAYS a bad thing. you can't say it is good for some people because it keeps things pure, but it is racist for others because they are keeping people out. In today's day and age we must be accepting, even if it means going against the norm.

If "white" colleges and sororities (and i use that term loosely because they really don't exist) admit non-white members, then "black" colleges and sororities should have to do the same. If not, it becomes a "separate but NOT equal" case and we all know how that turned out....

Please, I'm not trying to start anything, I just wanted to speak my mind.

[12dn94dst]

Originally posted by Finer Woman10-A-91:
Am I interested in the NPHC becoming a fully intergrated 50/50 mix? No. Some things are simply best understood by other sistahs. It's about identification.

I agree. The 4 Sororities are about the Sisterhood of African-American women.

I also have to agree with Finer Woman when she said segregation is not always a bad thing. In some cases, it keeps things organized and simpler.

According to Websters, segregation is the act or process of separating or setting apart from others or from the general mass.

The world we live in is still segregated, and I'm not talking about just racially either. Think about it. We work for SEPARATE companies. We go to SEPARATE schools. We belong to SEPARATE organizations. This board has SEPARATE forums. How can anyone say that segregation is ALWAYS bad? Nothing in this world is "always" or "never" anything. Mixing just for the sake of mixing is a lot of bull and sometimes causes more confusion that it's worth.



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Kelli
12-DN-94
SSU c/o 1997

[SilverTurtle]

prettygirl said:

I mean what are their (whites) real interest in sororities founded for BLACK Women especially since their are some sororities that are mostly "white" women! ...I personally think that we should take pride in what was started for US and not for them.

I have wondered the same thing. I have never personally met a white woman who belonged to any of the NPHC sororities, but I do know they are out there. I wonder how many of those of you who are NPHC members have met (if not pledged with!) non-black sisters? The few people who claim to have seem to think highly of them.

My personal speculations on why they would want to join? 1st, they probably identify with many of your ideals (not necessarily those directly related to race, but those in regards to how to live your life, service, etc.)
2cnd, they have probably been very personally touched by race relations in this country, or just that particular BGLO itself. Maybe they are of mixed races, and want us all to learn that while we're different, we can still learn to love these differences. What if when I was growing up I had been an underprivelaged kid, and an NPHC sorority (we'll say AKA for an example) had come around a couple times every year to help out w/ food and clothes and to just spend time with me. I'm sure that I would start to think highly of these women, and if I was lucky enough to make it onto college (given my hypothetical circumstance) I know that AKA would be the first BGLO or GLO I looked for, regardless of my race, because I would want to give back like those sisters had done for me.

And you are right, you should take pride in what was started for you (African-American women).

prettygirl said

I MEAN DAM WE HAVE TO LET THEM IN OUR HBCUS NOW

This isn't necessarily the topic, but I just want to briefly address it. This is the same kind of thinking that resulted in Jim Crow laws in the early 1900's. It wasn't right then, it isn't right now. And I would imagine that non-blacks who attend HBCU's do so for the same reasons any of us chose our respective colleges/universities: the department we were interested in has a good reputation, the professors, the class sizes, the location, financial aid, etc.

I think that it's important to have pride in your heritage and your history, no matter who you are. But part of that is being willing to share that with others folks, especially when they're interested.

------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

[prettygyrl]

Username look do not start that holier than though white person bull shit! No that was not a contradiction. YOU know what I meant WE are underrepresented in certain careers etc. I would not care if the glos never let me in hell thats why they had to start the BGLOS in the first place. SEGRAGATION is not always better. Let me say this much to you.....in MOST situations people segregate on their on Right. I mean you could walk into a Highschool Cafeteria or to a dance or etc and you will see mostly that whites are with whites and Blacks are with Blacks. My people fought for intergration because segration was not equal. It was not really that they were dying to be next to yall it was that we had the worst of everything! If we would have been EQUALLY segregated theN I am sure we would not have fought so hard to become intergrated. WE are underrepresented in high paying careers and so on. These jobs were not created for WHITE people(although yall act like they were) They were created for people period yet still we have to work twice as hard as you to even make IT in this world. BGLOS were created FOR Black people period. There are no maybes in that, that is the fact! I do question why white women want to join them but do not think i do not question why a BLACK woman would choose an glo over an BGLO! Some things are better left as is. I mean the fouding of your glos and colleges were founded before yall thought of us as 100% humans! So qutie naturally at first only you all were allowed there. But the reasoning behind the founding of our HBCUs and BGLOS is just so deep for us. I mean how many of you have founded anything on your own because a whole other race of people thought of you as less human? The BGLOS have a lot to be proud of because they are still going strong to this day and they are a big accomplishment for our people. WE had to fight white people for them to think of us as a real person I mean how upsetting is that? You look around today and little has changed! I think that the BGLOS are a sign of our strengh and abilites. They are something that shows us what we can do when are working together for the love of our people a love that seems so distant today. They are something great created for the good of us. So whether I am greek or not I still ask why should we share that with them? I have never ever seen a white woman or white man in a BGLO but if I ever do,I am not greek as of yet, but I would still feel like they have something of mine! I see so many Black women and Men turned away from these orgs. and i wonder how could thousands of Blacks get turned away from BGLOS yet somehow a few whites squeezed in. The greeks represent a strong Black family for the most part their is love and respect for one another. If you continue to allow outsiders into your family it will weaken! I do not care what BGLO a white person is in, in all actuality .......THEY CAN NEVER FEEL YOUR PAIN OR LOOK AT YOU WITH COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROBLEMS YOU FACE JUST BECAUSE YOU WERE BORN BLACK. YALL COULD NEVER BE ON THE SAME PAGE BECAUSE NO MATTER HOW MUCH PEOPLE TRY AND SUGARCOAT IT, THINGS ARE DIFFERENT FOR US THAN THEM SO I ASK YOU HOW CAN YOU LOVE THEM THE SAME AS YOU WOULD ME OR ANY OTHER BLACK PERSON? WHAT DO YOU HAVE IN COMMON? I MEAN CAN THEY REALLY LOVE A BGLO AS YOU DO? CAN THEY REALLY RESPECT IT AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY STAND FOR AND WHY THEY CAME ABOUT? Once again i say these are my feelings. Its not racism its truth. I am sure there are whites in BGLOS and I am sure they will continue to be as with interracial relationships. I can not stop these things from happening I can just pray for my people. Whatever choices people make they are the ones who have to live with them. FOR THOSE PEOPLE THAT GET INTO RELATIONSHIPS WITH WHITE PEOPLE OR CROSS THEM INTO THEIR ORGS. I JUST HAVE THIS TO SAY TO YOU ........DO YOU REALLY KNOW AND BELEIVE THAT NOW TO THEM WE ARE COMPLETE HUMANS OR WILL YOU ALWAYS WONDER...............

prettygyrl wrote:
"No that was not a contradiction. YOU know what I meant WE are underrepresented in careers etc. I would not care if the glos never let me in hell thats why they had to start the BGLOS in the first place."

Yes, I completely understand what you meant by your point about being underrepresented in many areas. And I agree with you about that. My comments were about your statements where you say it is NOT okay for white people "to have a piece of everything" but you implied that that it is okay for black people to be represented (have a piece of everything) "in just about every dam thing." My point is that just as blacks should be entitled to equal representation, the same applies to whites. Everyone should be entitled to equality, it is not a one way street.


prettygyrl wrote:
"SEGRAGATION is not always better."

I agree. I believe that segregation (between groups of people not defined by color) is not a problem in certain instances such as "12dn94dst" described above in her comments, different jobs, different schools, different organizations, etc. But, when it comes to segregation among blacks & whites within those instances (jobs, schools, organizations, etc) it is NOT okay. Segregation in non-public groups such as families or friends isn't really open to public scrutinization since those are choices made out of personal preference and are not open to the general public.


I don't know much about the history of how & why BGLOS were formed except for what I've learned in these forums. I do understand & agree with you (prettygyrl) about almost everything you say about BGLOS. The only point I disagree upon is how you say that BGLOS should be black-only now since they were founded by and for blacks and were black-only many years ago. That would not be any different than a GLO which was founded by & for whites and was white-only many years ago saying that they should be white-only today. The rules/laws do & should apply equally regardless of the color of the majority of people in an organization. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there should be 50/50 representation in BLGOS as their history is better understood & felt by blacks, I just do not think that the few whites who do join these organizations should be discriminated against based on COLOR.

prettygyrl, in many of your other statements you refer to whites of the past as "YOU". Please, do not be misled and think that I am the same or that I think the same as the white people of years ago did. I am very, VERY different. I'm referring to statements like "before yall thought of us as 100% humans!", I have never in my life ever thought of anyone black (or people of any other color) as less than 100% human. I wasn't even alive during the civil rights movement. There is a whole new generation of people on this planet who think & feel very differently about the world around them when compared to people of older & past generations.


prettygryl wrote:
"You look around today and little has changed!"

I think this really depends on where you look and who you look at. Where I have seen & everywhere that I have been in my (young) life, things are VERY, VERY different. Much different than even 40 years ago.

[blu_theatrics]

I have to say that I have sands who are not "black", but if you think that she loves SGRho less then me, then you are wrong. Although I will agree that the fact that we are black has a lot to do with the need of our orgs., that is not our only focus. I have met white soros who I fell do love SGRho as much as anyone else.

However, I still can understand were we don't want to loose our African American foundation, but I love my sands and I could never say that she is less of a soror then me.

So I guess I'm stuck in the middle, here.

[prettygyrl]

username........ should be enititled to equal equality and is, is two very different things. i never said once, that your glos should have to let black people in. I do not feel we need to be "represented" in your orgs. Why do we need to be in a "white" greek org. when we have our own? IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN IT WAS YOUR PEOPLE THAT MADE EQUALITY A ONE WAY STREET IN TH FIRST DAM PLACE SO WHO YOU TRYING TO CONVINCE. Keeping our BGOLS pure and our families pure is not unequality.(vice versa) Unequality is the fact that in Black neighborhoods the schools are shitty and white neigborhoods they are not! Unequality is the fact that Black get pulled over a vast amount more than white men! Unequality is the fact that white police officers gun down Black people like everyday as compared to Whites! Unequality is the fact that in a class that I was in, I was the only Black person in the class(which is how it was in most of my classes at this particular school), and the teacher ignored me everyday. I would raise my hand and she would never ever call on me, so finally one day after my hand was in the air for than ten minutes!...A white girl raised her hand and was called on immediately, and told the teacher that I had a question!!! Have you ever been in a similar situation username? Unequality is the fact that Black Boys make up the highest percentage of children in special ed! Unequality is when I could the same education(if not more) as you username and you would mos likely make more money than me! See dear unequality is one is not being treated as an equal when they are ENTITLED to equal treatment in certain settings. BUT! Not allowing white people in BGLOS or not agreeing with interracial dating is NOT a form of unequal treatmen BECAUSE BGLOS were mad for BLACK people there for you are not official entitled to membership! White people do NOT need to be EQUALLY represented in a BGLO, because afterall it is an BLACK GREEK LETTER ORGANIZATION!! i MEAN DAM HENCE THE NAME! IF you feel that you are entitled to equal repesenttation in a BGLO THEN YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN (vice versa). If that was the case why even bother with th disnction of BGLO and GLO! NOR are YOU ENTITLED to be a part of a BLACK FAMILY(vice versa)or entitled to Black MEN as with the case of the orgs! YOU HAVE YOUR OWN!! YOU can tell me you think this or that way but really I do not know what you think of me and really I do not care! I know I am Human and I know my race has always been so what you should do is go on tell some of the people in your family or you friends family that Hey I have always thought of Blakc people as 100% human why didn't you? Or WHY don't you! I ask you? HOW can you tell me what is different for us? YOU do not know shit! What has changed for your people in the last forty years? Alot right! I do not know where you looking at but MAYBE you should open up your eyes so you can SEE!

[prettygyrl]

SORRY FOR THE TYPOS IN THE LAST POST BUT I WAS KIND OF JUST LETTING IT FLOW! ANYWAY IA MDONE WITH TOPICS SUCH AS THESE JUST BECAUSE I CAN NOT BE REALLY FELT AND HEARD BY TYPING FACELESS IN A FORUM SO NO NEED TO KEEP ON ATTEMPTING TO MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND. I HAVE ENJOYED READINF PEOPLES POST THOUGH AND I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW I RESPECT YOU R OPNION. I DID WANT TO LEAVE YALL WITH THIS LAST POST IN THIS PARTICULAR FORUM, ITS THE SAME AS THE ONE I POSTED IN ANOTHER FORUM DEALING WITH WHITE/BLACK ISSUES...........I want to say something to Black people........UNFORTUNATELY ARE PRESENT STATE AS A PEOPLE IS VERY WEAK CURRENTLY, AND I COULD GO ON FOR DAYS AS TO HOW IT IS WE BECAME THIS WAY BUT I WILL NOT EVEN BOTHER WITH HOW IT STARTED. I WILL SAY THIS THOUGH.........WE WILL NEVER(I CAN NOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH) EVER GAIN EQUALITY IN THIS WORLD AS LONG AS WE CAN NOT GAIN IT AMONGST OURSELF. UNTIL THE DAY COMES THAT WE CAN SAY THAT NONE OF THE PAIN AND SUFFERING WE ENDURE IS AT THE HANDS OF ONE ANOTHER WE WILL CONTINUE TO STRUGGLE IN THIS WORLD. AS A PEOPLE WE HAVE A POOR SENSE OF WORTH AND WE CONTINUE TO HURT EACH IMMENSELY INSTEAD OF LOVING ONE ANOTHER. THE LOVE OF OURSLEVES IS KEY TO OUR STRUGGLE, WE SHALL NEVER OVERCOME UNTIL WE ARE STRONG AS A PEOPLE AND UNIFIED WITH A DEEP LOVE AMONGST OURSELVES. WE NEED TO REALIZE THAT THE GREATEST ACCEPTANCE WE CAN ACHIEVE IS THE ACCEPTANCE OF EACH OTHER NOT THE ACCEPTANCE OF OTHERS! UNTIL WE CAN LOVE, RESPECT, TRUST, AND BE LOYAL TO ONE ANOTHER WE CAN NEVER BE THAT WAY TO ANY OTHER. IF THERE ARE SOME WHO THINK THAT ARE IN LOVE WITH THE OTHER OR THAT RESPECT OR ARE RESPECTED BY THE OTHER, OR THAT THEY TRUST OR ARE TRUSTED BY THE OTHER, THEY ARE SUFFERING FROM A FALSE SENSE OF LOVE, RESPECT, TRUST, AND LOYALTY CAUSE ALL THAT BEGINS AT HOME. IF YOU DO NOT LOVE YOURSELF THEN YOU CAN NOT POSSIBLY LOVE ANYONE ELSE! I KNOW THAT WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS BUT AS A PEOPLE WE ARE ONE IN THE SAME. I SEE THINGS SUCH AS INTERRACIAL DATING,ALLOWING WHITE PEOPLE INTO BGLOS ETC. AS ANOTHER WAY THAT WE WEAKEN OURSELVES. THESE THINGS WEAKEN BONDS THAT WE MAY ALREADY HAVE AND CHANCES OF BONDS TO BE FORMED. IT IS JUST ANOTHER WAY WE DIVIDE OURSELVES. IF THERE ARE SOME WHO DO NOT BELEIVE OR WHO HAVE YET TO SEE THE REPERCUSSIONS OF THESE THINGS TRUST ME WHEN I SAY YOU WILL ONE DAY SEE. IT IS NOT ABOUT HATRED, OR RACISM. YES WE CAN WORK WITH WHITE PEOPLE, GO TO SCHOOL WITH THEM, ASSOCIATE WITH THEM, HELL INVITE THEM OVER FOR DINNER. YOU KNOW, WHATEVER. BUT! OUR FAMILIES AND OUR ORGS(SUCH AS BGLOS) IS SOMETHING THAT IS OUR OWN. PRIVATE PERSONAL! THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE HAVE AND ARE FIGHTING TO MAINTAIN, THINGS THAT WE HAVE AND ARE FIGHTING TO KEEP IN GOOD STANDING, TO KEEP THEM STRONG. THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE HAD TO AND STILL HAVE TO WORK DAM HARD AT TO KEEP TOGETHER AND TO KEEP THEM POSTIVE AMONGST OURSELVES! WE DO NOT HAVE TO SHARE THESE THINGS WITH THEM NOR SHOULD THEY HAVE TO SHARE THEM WITH US. WE ARE DIFFERENT! WE ARE VERY DIFFERENT! OUR LIFES WILL ALWAYS GO IN DIFFERENT WAYS. INTERGRATION MAY BE A GREAT IDEA IN SOME ASPECTS OF OUR LIVES BUT IT IS NOT SUCH A GOOD IDEA IN OTHER ASPECTS OF OUR LIVES. HOW CAN YOU KEEP THE BLACK FAMILY STRONG IF ONE OF THE HEADS OF THE FAMILY IS NOT BLACK? ITS REALLY NOT EVEN CONSIDERED A BLACK FAMILY ANY LONGER, RIGHT? SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ONE DAY THERE ARE JUST NO MORE BLACK PEOPLE AT ALL?........ I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YALL SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. I AM DONE WITH THIS TOPIC. I WANT TO SEND LOVE OUT TO ALL PEOPLE, BECAUSE I DO LOVE ALL PEOPLE. i JUST HAVE A GREATER AND MUCH DEEPER LOVE FOR MY PEOPLE AND IF THAT MAKES ME A RACIST........... THEN HELL, SO BE IT! AND ON THAT NOTE PRETTYGYRL IS OUT ON RACIAL TOPICS FOR AWHILE! BECAUSE THEY ARE BEGINNING TO BECOME A BIT REDUNDANT AND POINTLESS BECAUSE SOME DO NOT KNOW, SOME DO NOT WANT TO KNOW, SOME DO NOT CARE, AND SOME WANT TO JUST CONTINUE TO PRETEND! MY IDEAS WILL ALWAYS STAY THE SAME AND I WILL CONTINUE TO TRY AND UPLIFT MY PEOPLE ANY WAY I CAN! LOVE YA

[PositivelyAKA]

Originally posted by cash78mere:
If "white" colleges and sororities (and i use that term loosely because they really don't exist) admit non-white members, then "black" colleges and sororities should have to do the same. If not, it becomes a "separate but NOT equal" case and we all know how that turned out....

are you saying that if a university or sorority is 95% white with 5% minorities it is not a "white university" but if its 95% black with 5% whites its a "black university"
Is there a double standard? Yes "white universities and sororities exist. I prefer the term Predominately White and Predominately Black which is more accurate believe it or not not everyone at HBC's are black.

Hi Shalom!!! My view on this topic varies. The problem that I have with white people joining BGOs is that it seems that many of them are trying to fit in. Many white women, that I know, that have pledged black sororities are in interracial relationships and hang around black people. Now I am not generalizing, I am only speaking of those that I have come in contact with. It seems to me that these women are trying to fit into a lifestyle and what better way to do so than join a black greek sorority? I am dating a white and indian male and also have a considerable number of white friends but I did not choose to pledge a white sorority because I did not have any type of love for them in my heart. Nor did I feel that that path was for me as a black woman. If I found a white woman that joined a sorority because of its purpose instead of her friends or boyfriend then I would give them the upmost respect. But as far as I am concerned it is a matter of them trying to fit in where they get in...instead of getting in where they fit in.

prettygyrl wrote:
"i never said once, that your glos should have to let black people in. I do not feel we need to be "represented" in your orgs. Why do we need to be in a "white" greek org. when we have our own?"

The U.S. law makes it so that GLOS & BGLOS cannot discriminate based on color. This enables individuals to make the choices that are right for them. I'm not saying that all black greeks should be in GLOS or that all white greeks should be in BGLOS, all I'm saying is that individuals deserve to choose for themselves because of ethical, moral & legal reasons.


prettygyrl wrote:
"Keeping our BGOLS pure and our families pure is not unequality."

I agree with the point about families, but not about BLGOS/GLOS. Yes, greek organizations are very much like families but they are also public non-profit organizations which many times receive public funding. Organizations like this cannot be "public" and at the same time be exclusive to only people of a certain color.


prettygyrl wrote:
"HOW can you tell me what is different for us? YOU do not know shit!"

Well, I guess that means you cannot tell what is different for white people either, because you are not white. So any of your other comparisons between white/black are not valid, because you should have no clue about white people just like you say I should have no clue about blacks. The logic applies both ways.


prettygyrl wrote:
"What has changed for your people in the last forty years? Alot right! I do not know where you looking at but MAYBE you should open up your eyes so you can SEE!"

Yes, alot has changed. As in my previous statement I still say that from everything I have seen in my (young) life and everywhere I have been, many things are different. But, I'm starting to think that both of us are suffering from the same short-sightedness. Because where you are or have been, things are not very different than 40 years ago, but where I am & have been things are very different.


prettygyrl wrote:
"so what you should do is go on tell some of the people in your family or you friends family that Hey I have always thought of Blakc people as 100% human why didn't you? Or WHY don't you! I ask you?"

Because I do not know (and never have known) ANYONE who thinks that way.

[awatters]

Is this the white person's way of saying you can never have anything of your own....I will always be there to watch over you and regulate....

What is this? If you have such a problem with white women joining black sororities, you are perfectly welcome to deny them bids. Maybe they just want to be black. Is that such a problem?

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andrew watters
Theta Chi – ucla

[mgdzkm433]

I think that we've run the racial topics into the ground. . .am I alone on this?

[dc1]

Originally posted by mgdzkm433:
I think that we've run the racial topics into the ground. . .am I alone on this?

Agreed, Moderator... there seems to be too many treds of this topic running currently...

I would like to say this:
prettygirl has responded strongly to all of these topics, and has been met with alot of oposition... while I do not agree with many of things she has said, and have found some comments to be insulting, I do admire her will and tenacity to express her true feelings.
If only everyone where as able to speak how they feel this honestly, without fear of "ruffling someones feathers"....

keep it real pretty...