Schools that need to open for NPC expansion

[33girl]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

I think chapters do a fantastic job of coping with super large quotas, but they have to negatively affect the sorority experience. In these days of short new member periods, there is no way new members even know the girls in their class prior to initiation. Again, the chapters do a wonderful job of mitigating this, but it is a challenge that could be alleviated if classes were smaller. e more imposing than 66 is at another school.

This is like saying "the tire is flat so I'm going repair that hole in the roof of the house." If there are chapters so large that they need a semester for everyone to get acquainted, then stop this ridiculous one size fits all jazz and let them have a semester long pledge program.

[ComradesTrue]

I would throw out TCU.

12 NPCs, quota in high 60s past few years. With addition of AOII there was only a small drop in quota this past year- 69 to 65.

Students choose TCU because they like the small feel of the school (<8500 undergraduates) and the small academic classes. Yet, almost all of the sororities have over 200 members. It's in complete contrast to everything else about the school. Quotas in the 40s make more sense there, and that is still an ample pool to fill the 36 bed facility each year. In addition, quotas/total at that level would allow the chapters to conduct meetings in their chapter room instead of in lecture halls.

There is talk of rebuilding the Greek village (TCU owns the Greek chapter houses) in the next 3-5 years, so my guess is they are waiting for that to open so that any new chapters start off on even footing. There is no where left to put any new chapters in the current housing.

[tinydancer]

Originally Posted by ComradesTrue

12 NPCs, quota in high 60s past few years. With addition of AOII there was only a small drop in quota this past year- 69 to 65.

There is talk of rebuilding the Greek village (TCU owns the Greek chapter houses) in the next 3-5 years, so my guess is they are waiting for that to open so that any new chapters start off on even footing. There is no where left to put any new chapters in the current housing.

I heard that Phi Mu is coming on in the fall. Will they be unhoused for the time being? I'd hate for them to have to postpone.

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by tinydancer

I heard that Phi Mu is coming on in the fall. Will they be unhoused for the time being? I'd hate for them to have to postpone.

I am not enough in-the-know about extension at TCU to have any answers or inside information. I have heard the same rumor about Phi Mu from a few freshmen but have not seen/heard that from any official source.

Should any groups come on board between now and the completed new village there is no doubt that they would be accounted for with the new housing. In fact, the current drawings/renderings of the village include houses for future groups. The only thing not set in stone is when ground breaking will occur, thus there is no move-in date at the current time. We have been hearing "in the next 3-5 years" as a move in date for several years now, so that clearly has been a moving timeline.

The administration is VERY greek friendly. I would expect that they would work with any new group in the interim to give them the closest possible experience to housing. For example, there are 2 brand new dorms (one opened fall 2013, one to open fall 2014) that are located in the Greek area. My guess- and it is just a guess- that they could designate a floor of one of those dorms to the new group.

AOII took the last current housing spot, which is a portion of a 3 story dorm that was converted into 4 town-home style chapter houses. (This is the same style as all the fraternities and sororities). Unfortunately they got a wonky cut, and their layout isn't compatible for using it for recruitment. Therefore they did recruitment out of a fraternity house, which could be an option for a group that comes on before the village is finished.

So, there ARE ways to make it work. I just haven't heard anything concrete that the Greek Life office and the administration are choosing to go that route right away. Also, the lack of a formal announcement by this point in the school year leads me to believe that perhaps Fall 2014 isn't happening. I could see Fall 2015- that's one year closer to the new village, and would allow the new group plenty of time to market itself. In addition, it gives AOII an extra year of recruitment under their belt before another group comes on since Fall 2013 was their first formal recruitment. But again, I am not an in-the-know type person so take everything that I say with a grain of salt.

But the need is definitely there. The demand could actually support multiple new groups. It would take 4 new groups to get quota sub-50. That is key, as this is a school that students choose because of its small size, so the current 220ish chapter size/high 60s quota is in such contrast to everything else about the school (small enrollment, small classes, small dorms, etc).

Phi Mu would be an excellent addition to the campus. I would also love to see any/all of our 3 closed groups come back. There has definitely been enough time lapse, as the most recent closing was in 1992.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by tinydancer

I heard that Phi Mu is coming on in the fall. Will they be unhoused for the time being? I'd hate for them to have to postpone.

Phi Mu is on my list for Fall 2015, but things may have changed in two years since that official announcement.

ETA: LaneSig's 2011-12 GC Colony list says Fall 2014 for Phi Mu, but again it's two year old info.

[DubaiSis]

I would think also, especially at schools that don't have chapter houses, keeping pledge glasses in the 30 or under range makes the physical restrictions of space more feasible. You have to meet somewhere other than the football stadium! Even in the largest schools with mega-houses, having a reasonable percentage of the members live in is a goal to try to obtain WITHOUT building airport sized facilities. While "those" schools are doing admirably, having quotas such that a third to half of the membership lives in seems both practical and less stressful. Not so small that EVERYONE has to live in, because that is additionally stressful, but not so many that you could have that beautiful house and never get to live in it. Plus, being a size where you can have chapter meetings in your home might be a goal. So my feeling is even at schools with huge chapter houses, a quota in the 60-75 range is probably more than sufficient. Slow expansion, of a new chapter every couple of years, should allow for the existing chapters to slowly shrink in size and not play havoc with their budgets.

[Just interested]

I am very puzzled that Baylor has not opened for expansion. Chapters are much too large for being unhoused in my opinion.

Totally agree Irish Pipes, large houses require bigger numbers just to pay for the upkeep of the houses and Greek Life does go in cycles. Just a footnote, according to the Vice President of Student Life ( think that is his title) at Texas A&M stated at a Greek Advisors meeting not to long ago that they expect Greek Life to double soon in part because of their membership in the SEC.

[pinksequins]

Despite a lot of extension, Cincy still has high numbers, but I am not familiar enough with the university or its Greek Life to know if that is a good read of the situation.

Next vote is for any campus where AOPi already has a chapter.
; -)

[pinksequins]

Sonoma State (again)
Nevada - Reno
Wake Forest

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by pinksequins

Sonoma State (again)
Nevada - Reno
Wake Forest

UNR is open. Greekchat's influence is amazing.

[Low D Flat]

But at some schools 45 might be more imposing than 66 is at another school.

Right, it's all about the atmosphere at the school. At smaller schools without houses, it's near impossible to get a big group together and build bonds. At schools like Yale, on the list above, I think a CHAPTER of around 60-80 is optimal. A big part of the interest in NPCs at these schools is connecting with upperclassmen, and there's not much connection with upperclassmen if you're struggling to learn 50-60 names in your pledge class.

[violetgeek]

I deal with demographics data a good bit in my job, and I hope that our GLOs and the educational institutions do some interest/membership potential projections when making expansions decisions. For example, looking at the number of females ages 9-14 and their income & ethnicity characteristics to estimate what the demand may be in the near future.

My grad school advisor did demographic analysis for the admissions office and for the State Department of Education, looking at future demand, for use in planning for campus expansions. For those of you that have experience with greek life departments, have you seen this type data used?

[33girl]

Like LDF said, it's different at every school. Go by the law of diminishing returns, i.e. the sizes have gotten so uncomfy for that school that it deters women from joining. Dartmouth was wanting more sororities and complaining about size when the chapters got to like 110 members. At Arkansas, the chapters had to get to like 350 before they were at that point. Just saying "xxx is too big of a class" is arbitrary. Also, how many from that class are still there senior year? Once again it seems the focus is on quota and total during rush and retention gets swept under the rug. Kind of like the girls who spend months planning for the wedding but can't be bothered to spend 2.5 seconds figuring out a household budget or discussing what religion the kids will be...the things of the actual marriage.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Like LDF said, it's different at every school. Go by the law of diminishing returns, i.e. the sizes have gotten so uncomfy for that school that it deters women from joining. Dartmouth was wanting more sororities and complaining about size when the chapters got to like 110 members. At Arkansas, the chapters had to get to like 350 before they were at that point. Just saying "xxx is too big of a class" is arbitrary. Also, how many from that class are still there senior year? Once again it seems the focus is on quota and total during rush and retention gets swept under the rug. Kind of like the girls who spend months planning for the wedding but can't be bothered to spend 2.5 seconds figuring out a household budget or discussing what religion the kids will be...the things of the actual marriage.

I think part of the issue at Arkansas was the sudden increase in interest. The chapters had been a healthy size, but not huge, for 15 years and then BAM all of the sudden they were dealing with massive quotas. The chapters hated that from the start but it was a slow process to open for extension due to concerns about housing and the administration's slowness to accept the issue as a real need. By the time they finally opened, the chapters were at ridiculous sizes.

[DubaiSis]

True, BUT member retention through 4 years might improve if they don't feel that their usefulness has passed them by. If all of the leadership in the chapter is handled by a small portion of the sophomores and juniors, you can't possibly live in the house, and you are completely over the fraternity party scene, what reason is there to keep paying dues and attending chapter meetings that are bigger than freshman lecture classes? If that 350 member chapter goes to 250 that is still a freakishly big group, but some of the above could be diminished, at least for a few girls.

There are some schools where it seems member retention must be terrible. I notice huge pledge classes, but quite large spring rush numbers as well. The only way that can happen is if they are losing well more than the odd disgruntled member who bails, or the odd member who transfers to a different school or simply drops out of college. Now, part of that is special snowflake inability to keep to a commitment, but that can't explain all of it.