Large vs Small chapters

[33girl]

Originally Posted by BAckbOwlsgIrl

Lane Swerve...

So if you have NM classes of 100+ and chapter size is 310ish. Wouldn't chapter size be 400ish? What happened to the 100 members that left? That is a drop out rate of 25%. What is being done to retain members? Sure we can say that part is finances, some don't like sorority life. But 100 members is HUGE! Then again, 25% is huge. I wish that this board would address membership retention more. I realize that it walks the line on membership selection, internal chapter operations, etc.

End of Lane Swerve...

That is exactly the part I don't get. I don't think it's treading the MS line. I know there have been some people on here who say that at their school, Greek is something you are gung ho on as a sophomore, junior year it's ok, and if you're a senior and still involved it's uncool.

And this isn't even telling the whole story - I'm sure there are girls who just pay their dues and fines and only show up to the bare minimum to stay an active and not get called in front of standards because they want to go to mixers and meet men, or because being able to say "I'm an XYZ alum" is advantageous socially after graduation. It's doubtful they really understand what sisterhood is, other than a means to a social end.

I'd like it to be that chapters aren't lauded/penalized for making/not making quota, but rather for their retention rate. I have no doubt that some of the chapters that are getting bitched at after every recruitment would all of a sudden be the fair-haired girls, and vice versa.

[AngelPhiSig]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yes, it was an old dorm. They held the most women (52 as opposed to 14-16 for the rest of the sorority houses) BUT the bedrooms themselves were postage stamp sized AND most of the members had to buy meal plans (a lot of the reason of moving off campus, which our houses were, was to not have to eat caf food anymore) since only upperclassmen had kitchen privileges due to the amount of people living in the house. Since Ali and I were in school, the ZTAs are no longer in this house and the largest sorority house (D Phi E's) is more like a block of apartments - I'm not sure how they do the common area, the last time I was in it it was a fraternity house and scary.

I forgot they arent in there anymore - where do they live now? I only know whats going on with Phi Sig (and getting our old house back and not that one back in the "triangle" area of the old Sig Tau/KDR and I cant remember who was there area... ) Im wondering if it hurt their recruitment. I know having a house at CU is a big thing - and having one close is better. I thought I had heard the university had bought the ZTA, Tri Sigma, and such houses...

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AngelPhiSig

I forgot they arent in there anymore - where do they live now? I only know whats going on with Phi Sig (and getting our old house back and not that one back in the "triangle" area of the old Sig Tau/KDR and I cant remember who was there area... ) Im wondering if it hurt their recruitment. I know having a house at CU is a big thing - and having one close is better. I thought I had heard the university had bought the ZTA, Tri Sigma, and such houses...

I have no idea where ZTA is now. The Foundation (which is a different animal than the University) owns the houses - I think ours is empty right now, the fraternity in it maybe couldn't fill it.

[AngelPhiSig]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I have no idea where ZTA is now. The Foundation (which is a different animal than the University) owns the houses - I think ours is empty right now, the fraternity in it maybe couldn't fill it.

Which house was yours?

[kateee]

My college has ceiling set at 40 now, it was 35 in the fall though. They only raised it a week before informal spring recruitment. I personally love having a small chapter because I know every girl well. Then again, my college is tiny (I would say about 800 students) so having a large sorority is improbable.

[WCsweet<3]

To preface: my pledge class was right around 54 and total was around 130 I believe. It grew throughout my collegiate years.

Originally Posted by AngelPhiSig

Do you know all of the women in your CHAPTER? or even your CLASS?

I knew everyone by face, name, year, majors (usually) and typically something about them. It really depended on if they were at the house often. When I was a senior, I graduated early. I didn't get to know that pledge class as well as I wanted, but I still got to know them fairly well. I knew the seniors, juniors and sophomores when I pledged very well. I also knew the juniors and sophomores when I graduated very well. I could tell you the life story of almost everyone in PC. This is where I think living in is important. If you have a smaller chapter, it is easier to get everyone together other than at mandatory events. In larger chapters, it is always a struggle. If there is a common structure, people come over for meals, studying, hanging out etc. You end up hanging out with sisters you normally wouldn't without the shared structure either because you live together or convenience.

Originally Posted by AngelPhiSig

At schools with such large groups, is there a reason they don't make the chapters smaller and then expand to have more chapters?

I think the question could flip as well. Why have a bunch of small groups instead of having larger? Yes, there are different personalities, but at the same time, are the groups that different? As I got older, I really felt that I would have been comfortable with any group on my campus. I would have developed differently than I did, but I still feel like I would have done just as well.

Originally Posted by AngelPhiSig

Don't get me wrong, I look at bid day pictures and videos and think "Wow, that would have been awesome to run with the other new members and see such a large group looking for me!"

I feel like a small group would have been nice. If you aren't an outgoing person it can be easy to feel lost sometimes.

Originally Posted by AngelPhiSig

Also, how does it work to select new members? How do you remember everyone? How does everyone get to meet all of the PNMs? My mind is boggled with such a large group!

I'm not sure how to answer without going into membership selection. I will try my best to still answer. On pref night/bid day, I met women that we were thinking of bidding or had extended a bid, whose names I had only heard a few times and had never met. I trusted my sisters to know the chapter and to know what was best for the chapter. Every year this seemed to work out really well for us. This is also why GCers recommend that new members stick it out for a few weeks if they didn't like their bid because at the larger chapters a PNM really only meets a small portion of the chapter. This also probably plays into why it took me two years to realize that the chapters on my campus really weren't that different. You get 130 college women in a room and there is a spectrum. You add the filter of being interested in sororities and the spectrum narrows. I can almost guarantee that the distribution of women from that spectrum in the chapters might be different, but that all areas would be represented. Sure XYZ may have more cheerleaders, but ABC has a couple too. This also might be different in the SEC. I really can only speak for my campus, but it has been echoed, more or less, from others as well.

[DGTess]

I went to college in the mid-70s, at a small selective school that had just a couple of years before closed its "womens" college and recognized us as equal. We had five chapters; the largest was about 40, and total enrollment of women was probably under 1000. My chapter was about 20 the year I was president -- yep, we knew everyone. We might not have been close, but then I have biological sisters that I'm closer to than others. Total was in the 50s, but no one approached it, and no one bothered to re-set it; what would have been the point? (Today, the chapters are large, another has been added, and chapter size is approximately 100, but it's also 40 years later.)

I've spoken to other women at similar schools during the same time. We can recall the bid days when you gave out a dozen bids and prayed some would be accepted. One of my pledge sisters got bids from both us and Chi Omega and had to decide; few of the Chi Os spoke to her for the next couple of years. (We did not have a today-style rush, obviously.) MOST of the greeks on campus were first-generation greeks.

So I've been reading GC for a few years now and learned my experience was not typical of today's student, even at the small schools. GC has helped me to write recs (though I've probably done fewer than half a dozen in 40 years) and has definitely helped me to understand my alumnae sisters better - many of them had the big-chapter experience that is completely foreign to me.

But I've had questions similar to those AngelPhiSig. I can't imagine a chapter of 50 or more, much less 200 (and I've never been able to figure out if total is 250, and you pledge 100 each year, where the other 150 went). I've been thinking a lot depends on where you *choose* to go to school. Someone who chooses SEC is probably in a very different place socially than someone who chooses a small private college, and looking for very different experiences (my chapter never once went to a football game). The sororities reflect that.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by DGTess

... GC has helped me to write recs (though I've probably done fewer than half a dozen in 40 years) and has definitely helped me to understand my alumnae sisters better - many of them had the big-chapter experience that is completely foreign to me.

As a regional official, I learned how all sizes of chapters operated, from one that had about 17 to one that had around 150. They operate about the same. They all have the same types of members, they all do the same types of things, just in different proportions.
A big chapter will have an officer for every aspect. For instance, a big chapter might have a chairman of swap T shirts and another chairman for other kinds of T shirts. A very small chapter would have a vice president: finance whose duties included ordering T shirts.

Originally Posted by DGTess

I can't imagine a chapter of 50 or more, much less 200.

Alabama has chapters with about 280 members each - a couple have 300. Even the new houses can't seat all those members at dinner at one time. Heck, there are restaurants out there that don't have that many customers all day, but the sorority house kitchen is expected to feed that many 3 squares a day? I can't wrap my mind around it.
But with that many members, not all of them are going to be there at any one time, just like all church members are not all at church at any one time. A certain percentage is going to be out for an excused absence. The proportion is roughly the same as when we were a chapter of 50.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Someone who chooses SEC is probably in a very different place socially than someone who chooses a small private college, and looking for very different experiences (my chapter never once went to a football game). The sororities reflect that.

Your chapter was aware that football games existed, though. LOL. (I'm exaggerating, all the Greeks had members in band/front/majorettes, the football team and cheerleaders...although block seating would have resulted in many many empty blocks.)

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Your chapter was aware that football games existed, though. LOL. (I'm exaggerating, all the Greeks had members in band/front/majorettes, the football team and cheerleaders...although block seating would have resulted in many many empty blocks.)

While I was there, I don't *think* any of my sisters ever attended one; we had no band members, no cheerleaders, and no one affiliated with the athletic department. One sister was a buggy driver, but buggy is VERY specific to CMU. Football was simply not something much of the campus paid attention to. One of the school's chapters had a number of sisters who dated guys from one fraternity -- the one with the most football players, and they attended.

I simply use football to illustrate the relative priorities of the different campuses, and that when your entire chapter is 20-40 women, the chapters really can have entirely different personalities, where women really may find they don't fit in a few of them. Now that the chapter sizes at that school are over 100, perhaps the distinction isn't as pronounced.

[AngelPhiSig]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Your chapter was aware that football games existed, though. LOL. (I'm exaggerating, all the Greeks had members in band/front/majorettes, the football team and cheerleaders...although block seating would have resulted in many many empty blocks.)

Football haha. I was in the colorguard and still dont recall much football. I dont think anyone says "Oh hey, I wanna go to CU for football!" However, we did have that one guy who made it to the Arizona NFL team...

Another difference between where we were and big schools. I would have loved to have been at big football games with big tailgates, instead of now at homecoming, hanging outside of the Tavern.

[Titchou]

Total isn't a "cap" on membership like quota is a cap on bids. It's a number derived at from the average chapter size on campus with consideration given to how many are way below that and how many are way above. The only time total comes into consideration at all is if a chapter is below total after recruitment, they can recruit (COB) up to total - not just quota. This allows the smaller chapters the chance to grow to a size more in line with the others on campus. Otherwise, they would only be allowed to pledge quota and would never have a mechanism in place to grow to met the size of the others.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Total isn't a "cap" on membership like quota is a cap on bids. It's a number derived at from the average chapter size on campus with consideration given to how many are way below that and how many are way above. The only time total comes into consideration at all is if a chapter is below total after recruitment, they can recruit (COB) up to total - not just quota. This allows the smaller chapters the chance to grow to a size more in line with the others on campus. Otherwise, they would only be allowed to pledge quota and would never have a mechanism in place to grow to met the size of the others.

I understand that. (I presume you were responding to my point). But since no one ever reached total, and at the time we didn't worry about all the chapters being the same size, or quotas, total was simply an abstract concept that had somehow been set. I'd bet 90% of my chapter sisters couldn't have told you what it was or what it meant. I wouldn't either, if not for reading here on GC.

[ProudandTrue]

Angel, The Beta Alpha chapter house at University of Maryland is GORGEOUS! Not too far from you, either.

[AngelPhiSig]

Originally Posted by ProudandTrue

Angel, The Beta Alpha chapter house at University of Maryland is GORGEOUS! Not too far from you, either.

Yeah, I think I need to go visit!!!