President Obama vs. Governor Jan Brewer

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

I do think, however, the level of disprespect shown President Obama is unprecedented. From congressmen yelling "you lie" during a previous State of the Union, to this incident, to others, this goes well beyond the role of "the loyal opposition."

I can't agree with you more.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I haven't seen any videos of this incident. Do we really know what is being said, outside of the speculation from news agencies?

The quoted section says they were smiling and talking. How do we know she wasn't in the middle of the story and that the camera caught her at a bad moment?

/random thought

I think the smiling and talking happened before the "misunderstanding."

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

It seems to me that this immigration thing is never going to get solved.

I'm surprised that people aren't more up-in-arms about the new procedural change at UICIS that allows people to process their spouse's paperwork before sending them back home to their home country, not knowing whether they'll be able to return and when. If nothing else, I was hoping it would shed some light on the fact that marrying an American is NOT the automatic greencard the movies make it out to be (most of those plots involve expiring visas, which is a whole 'nother ball of wax). There are thousands of people out there with US Citizen spouses and children who live in fear that they will be deported and never see their families again because there is no law allowing them to get legal papers without them returning to their home country for a minimum of six months, usually longer, not knowing if they'll ever get to come back. If someone told you that you had to willingly leave your spouse and children and it's a throw of the dice whether you get to come back, are you leaving?

/Woah, Soapbox

All of the hassle/wait times is because of the amount of fraud that goes on even with the current steps and procedures in place that couples have to do. If we gave insta-citizenship the second the marriage license was issued it would be quite the mess.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I haven't seen any videos of this incident. Do we really know what is being said, outside of the speculation from news agencies?

The quoted section says they were smiling and talking. How do we know she wasn't in the middle of the story and that the camera caught her at a bad moment?

/random thought

My thoughts exactly. We really don't know what the exchange was at all and as far as anyone knows HE could have said something to her to set her off ( Obama is suing her you know). Either way, I'm not surprised that the media is trying to portray this as Brewer being a crazy bitch chasing Obama out on the tarmac to cuss him out. LOL

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

I do think, however, the level of disprespect shown President Obama is unprecedented. From congressmen yelling "you lie" during a previous State of the Union, to this incident, to others, this goes well beyond the role of "the loyal opposition."

I don't know about this. It probably is just more apparent because of the increase in media coverage.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

All of the hassle/wait times is because of the amount of fraud that goes on even with the current steps and procedures in place that couples have to do. If we gave insta-citizenship the second the marriage license was issued it would be quite the mess.



My thoughts exactly. We really don't know what the exchange was at all and as far as anyone knows HE could have said something to her to set her off ( Obama is suing her you know). Either way, I'm not surprised that the media is trying to portray this as Brewer being a crazy bitch chasing Obama out on the tarmac to cuss him out. LOL

Obama isn't suing Jan Brewer.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

All of the hassle/wait times is because of the amount of fraud that goes on even with the current steps and procedures in place that couples have to do. If we gave insta-citizenship the second the marriage license was issued it would be quite the mess.

Not being able to obtain citizenship without leaving your family for more than 6 months seriously is not even in the same ballpark as insta-citizenship. Just because something requires time and procedure, doesn't mean it should require what it currently requires. There is a middle ground.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

...HE could have said something to her to set her off

Even the articles state that Gov. Brewer claims that the President either set her off at that moment or in the past. Does it really matter whether the President said something Gov. Brewer disliked which made Gov. Brewer point a literal finger at the President? I think not.

***
I hate how the cameras move away from them once they end the handshake and start talking. LOL.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politic...nt-Obama-video

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I don't know about this. It probably is just more apparent because of the increase in media coverage.

Media coverage of everything in the world has increased but the media has always existed. Some level of media coverage of the President of the United States has always existed. My question was whether anyone has heard of (i.e., articles, historical footage, videos) people being able to jump crazy on the President of the United States (at least in the past 40 years). Let me know if you find anything.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I don't know about this. It probably is just more apparent because of the increase in media coverage.

I don't think so. Many folks from both sides of the aisle who have been in Washington long enough to see changes have commented on the deterioration of civility, and that's what this is part of.

As for Dr. Phil's question, my memory is that at the time of the "you lie" incident, historians commented that it was pretty much unprecedented.

[DrPhil]

Thanks, MysticCat.

So, the videos of the Brewer-Obama greeting all end the close-up right at the introductory handshake. Brewer says she was being expressive with her hand gestures. I understand expressive facial expressions and hand gestures that can look crazy or disrespectful if there is a camera shot. However, a finger point seems to be more than a hand gesture. A finger point is more than an expression of excitement.

Saying something like "WE can make this immigration bill happen...I look forward to working with you" can be more stern when you add a pointed finger. Saying "I'm sorry you disliked my book but I respect the Office of the President and I hope you read my entire book" is more stern with a pointed finger.

It seems as though a pointed finger in the face only makes sense if you are saying "the diner up the road has the best bacon burgers and Old Bay fries...drive that way and then turn that way...diner on the left side."

Other than that, put your damn hand down.

[AZTheta]

Bottom line: People don't shake fingers or point fingers in other peoples' faces. You just don't do that. It is absolutely a disrespectful, demeaning, belittling, hostile gesture. There's nothing friendly about it, and I can't even imagine a "joke" in which you'd shake a finger in someone's face.

There's no misinterpreting that photo. Her body posture, facial expression, etc. don't connote a polite exchange. Once more I am disgusted to have her representing the State of Arizona.

"He set her off" - what? Then don't show up to greet him; send the lieutenant governor. Seriously. The flu is rampant in Arizona. You could just be sick and save yourself the aggravation of interacting with someone you obviously don't respect. Shame on you, Jan Brewer. Shame on you. I thought you could do better. Obviously not.

Yes DrPhil, YES. Put your damn hand down, Jan.

[DrPhil]

Maybe Brewer was pointing at the plane and saying "that's hot."

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Obama isn't suing Jan Brewer.

Obama's DOJ is/was suing the state of AZ and IIRC Brewer was listed named in the lawsuit, so yeah Obama was/is suing Brewer (in proxy at least). I'll admit I'm not up to date on whats going on with that but taking into account Brewer had her own lawsuit against the Obama administration that was thrown out last year I'm not surprised that there is bad blood between the two.

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Not being able to obtain citizenship without leaving your family for more than 6 months seriously is not even in the same ballpark as insta-citizenship. Just because something requires time and procedure, doesn't mean it should require what it currently requires. There is a middle ground.

Like a K-3 visa maybe?

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Even the articles state that Gov. Brewer claims that the President either set her off at that moment or in the past. Does it really matter whether the President said something Gov. Brewer disliked which made Gov. Brewer point a literal finger at the President? I think not.

***
I hate how the cameras move away from them once they end the handshake and start talking. LOL.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politic...nt-Obama-video

Does it matter? I don't know, but what I do know is that we really don't know what went down on the tarmac here... Brewer might just be a "hand talker" lol. I'm sure there was some heated words exchanged, but only Obama and Brewer knows exactly what went down. I'm not privy to listening in on Obama's phone calls and meetings but given the nature of politics I'm sure heated exchanges happen all of the time, just not caught on tape.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Does it matter?

No, it doesn't.

And if Brewer is a hand talker, she has hopefully learned her lesson.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Like a K-3 visa maybe?

At this point, it still requires the undocumented spouse/parent to leave the country without a guarantee that they'll ever be allowed back in (and if they are, it's a minimum of six months later). That's unacceptable.