U of Charleston Suspends TKE

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

Oh, I definitely take some offense. But it's hard to disagree when you see chapters with 6 people and wonder why the national organization is wasting time + resources at the school. Six people does not a chapter make unless you had many volunteers helping you during recruitment/pledging. That's a lot of money and volunteer hours to spend on a failing chapter.

Pack up the bags, invest that money in chapters who may be on the brink or are experiencing hardship (but aren't lost causes) and go home. Too often, I feel, the national organization is so drawn to the "We have the most chapters" marketing slogan that it sometimes defies logic on expansion.

So, 6 members is below the specified minimum chapter size for TKE?

[33girl]

Minimum chapter size and minimum size to charter are two different things. I know there've been some guys on here saying TKE was pretty inflexible about the minimum of members required to charter.

I honestly don't know if any group has a "minimum chapter size." To put such a thing in writing could come back to bite you in the ass later (i.e. if once you leave that campus, the campus will never let you back on).

[lucgreek]

Off the top of my head, I don't know the specific number (if there is one), but I do know that there being not enough members to operate as a chapter, that is one of the clauses for shutting a chapter down.

There are 8 officer positions in TKE and this chapter only has 6. In my mind, there is no way this chapter has enough members to function.

And while not to speculate on this chapter's finances, I'd suspect with only 6 members, chapter finances will probably be less than stellar.

Edit: And yes, I'm fairly sure 35 members is needed to charter a colony and that number is completely inflexible, you either meet it or you don't.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I honestly don't know if any group has a "minimum chapter size." To put such a thing in writing could come back to bite you in the ass later (i.e. if once you leave that campus, the campus will never let you back on).

Plus, chapter size is really campus dependent, at least for NIC/NPC groups. I think the trend is much more important than the point-in-time number.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Minimum chapter size and minimum size to charter are two different things. I know there've been some guys on here saying TKE was pretty inflexible about the minimum of members required to charter.

I honestly don't know if any group has a "minimum chapter size." To put such a thing in writing could come back to bite you in the ass later (i.e. if once you leave that campus, the campus will never let you back on).

Wouldn't the difference between minimum charter size and minimum chapter size depend on the organization and institution? Could the same also be said for whether there is a minimum active collegiate chapter size for some organizations?

This would also highlight whether there is a difference between being a "struggling chapter" and being a small chapter. Delta, for example, has collegiate chapters in which the active members love being from really small chapters. I am a product of one of those chapters. However, depending on how small the chapter is, the university and Delta can see small chapters different than the active members do. That is one way in which Delta's special dispensation was sometimes used to accommodate/assist/be patient with really small chapters that needed special dispensation. That decision would be based on a number of factors including an assessment of the expected chapter size.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

Off the top of my head, I don't know the specific number (if there is one), but I do know that there being not enough members to operate as a chapter, that is one of the clauses for shutting a chapter down.

There are 8 officer positions in TKE and this chapter only has 6. In my mind, there is no way this chapter has enough members to function.

And while not to speculate on this chapter's finances, I'd suspect with only 6 members, chapter finances will probably be less than stellar.

Thanks for answering. I know small NPHC chapters where members held more than one office.

Originally Posted by lucgreek

Edit: And yes, I'm fairly sure 35 members is needed to charter a colony and that number is completely inflexible, you either meet it or you don't.

35 is the size needed to charter a TKE chapter?

See, if 35 was the requirement to charter Delta collegiate chapters, there wouldn't be so many Delta collegiate chapters. LOL. That's why I asked about the minimize chapter size for TKE.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

Oh, I definitely take some offense. But it's hard to disagree when you see chapters with 6 people and wonder why the national organization is wasting time + resources at the school. Six people does not a chapter make unless you had many volunteers helping you during recruitment/pledging. That's a lot of money and volunteer hours to spend on a failing chapter.

My bad for inferring too much from your earlier post. Sorry.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Wouldn't the difference between minimum charter size and minimum chapter size depend on the organization and institution? Could the same also be said for whether there is a minimum active collegiate chapter size for some organizations?

It should. However, this thread (even though the OP pruned his post) says that for TKE, the min is 35, regardless of whether the average chapter size is appreciably smaller.

Some universities say you have to have X number of members to remain a registered student organization. I think those are fairly few and far between though, as some perfectly feasible student orgs just don't lend themselves to having a lot of members.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

Edit: And yes, I'm fairly sure 35 members is needed to charter a colony and that number is completely inflexible, you either meet it or you don't.

So if there are 35 needed to charter one must ask what happened either with the Chapter, or with Greeks in general, that caused the only Fraternity at UCWV to fall off the cliff and lose all these members and not be able to replace them. It certainly isn't competition from other Fraternities.

Our GLO requires 40+ (not absolutely sure on this #) to charter but per our bylaws it takes 4 members to constitute a duly recognized chapter. So, in reality, there could be a very small chapter but this is highly improbable as our National would most likely step in and reorganize.

[Psi U MC Vito]

I seem to remember that Psi U has a set chapter size required for chartering as well.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by 33girl

And you jumped right to comment on both of them. And you're using the word "different" in the same way my mom used to use it, which is kind of cute. ("She's different" as uttered by Mom33 = "She's a freakadoo whackjob who should have probably been drowned at birth.")

Pretty sure your sorority or my fraternity would have shut down a group of that size. Is that inaccurate? Would your organization continue to support a 4-member house or wait until serious alcohol and hazing violations to shut down a six-member house?

My guess is no.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Pretty sure your sorority or my fraternity would have shut down a group of that size. Is that inaccurate? Would your organization continue to support a 4-member house or wait until serious alcohol and hazing violations to shut down a six-member house?

My guess is no.

That has nothing to do with anything. The point is that you're acting shocked that TKE shut down a chapter at all and implying by your shockedness that they have no standards. That is the cheese dickish behavior to which I am referring.

UCWV is a very small school, in an area that's not exactly booming. If TKE recognizes that and doesn't want to force the group there to be like its chapters at SEC or Big 10 schools, but still feels those men are just as deserving of brotherhood as any other, more power to them.

[Kevin]

You're going to great lengths to ignore/refuse to answer my question. Would your organization tolerate a 4-member chapter?

The standards are clearly different. And frankly, yes, I am a little surprised they shut down this chapter. The chapter at my alma mater was caught by the Greek Life Advisor (she walked in on this) holding a fundraiser for MDA which consisted of $3.00 all you can drink beer being served by a 14-year-old girl. Our campus was dry. That same semester, TKE had a sub 1.0 GPA, fell to less than 10 members and was de-recognized by the school, yet they held on to their charter. Anecdotal? Yes. But absolutely true.

Of course, that was a little while ago, and standards have apparently changed.

Sometimes an organization deserves to be criticized when it acts in poor taste. We're all lumped together by non-greeks and when one organization, particularly one as well-recognized as TKE tolerates bad behavior, it reflects on all of us. I've seen them tolerate some pretty absurd things in the past. Maybe they're turning a corner.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Would your organization tolerate a 4-member chapter?

Is this an NIC-NPC thing?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Is this an NIC-NPC thing?

Yes. Maybe I should have specified. 33 is a member of an NPC organization.