Occupy Wall Street

[AGDee]

Yes, and the places where they protest are also the employers of a lot of the 99%. So, if you disrupt their business, it hurts the little guy even more. The CEO isn't going to be affected.

[*winter*]

If any movement is asking the 99% to unite on any issue...it's doomed. One thing people in the US can't do is agree. Point fingers, that's all ANYONE does. Even the "good" pols are at it- it's not my fault, it's that guy across the aisle with the (insert opposite party here.)

If the left tries to respond by regulating the financial sector, or imposing taxes on millionares, the right will refute it by saying it's "Big Government" and it stops jobs from being created. And we'll be at the same stand-still we've been at...well, for about 3 years now.

I guess I'm just a cynic, but I honestly don't think the investment/financial world will change tomorrow. The only way to "change" the industry is for people to become financially independent, and stop using the loan services, credit cards, high-interest mortgages, etc. But I'm the kind of person who thinks protests don't accomplish much except for tying up traffic. (Not that I don't admire people who try...or that I don't think someone should listen. It's just that no one ever does, and everyone just eventually has to roll up their little signs and go home.)

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Yes, and the places where they protest are also the employers of a lot of the 99%. So, if you disrupt their business, it hurts the little guy even more. The CEO isn't going to be affected.

All it does is make life that much more annoying for the guy who has to push through a crowd to go clean offices...

[amIblue?]

I agree with the previous posts about the 99% not being able to unite, but it is mind boggling to consider what could be accomplished if we could unite as a nation.

If the OWS people can bring attention to the issues of continued corporate overseas outsourcing of jobs when unemployment and underemployment of Americans continue to be problems, then more power to them.

The unemployment thing hits close to home right now.

[AOII Angel]

I listen to NPR everyday, too, Dr. Phil...bring on more of those topics. I find them interesting. The OWS movement seems rudderless, but if it survives will likely be co-opted by a leader or group of leaders who will have an agenda. If nothing else, I'm glad to see the financial sector come back under the microscope after escaping from the mortgage backed securities fiasco essentially unscathed. Let 'em feel the heat for awhile.

[*winter*]

Yeah...but this country has been outsourcing jobs for 30 years now. I think everyone knows about it The question is, do the people who are profiting from it care? Are they even capable of caring? I honestly don't think so.

All it's done is give the people who already make stupid, ignorant comments a target at which to direct their next stupid, ignorant comment. More of the same- why don't you have a job? You must be lazy. You could be job-searcing right now instead of protesting. (Guess they never heard of iPhones and multi-tasking?) They need to shower, no wonder no one will hire them. And on and on.

The problem in this country is that we've lost our f***ing compassion. People are so busy judging each other and worrying that $5 more dollars a month might come out of their check for taxes that they can't see the forest for the trees. The American Dream is GOING AWAY- that's right, GOING AWAY. Our schools suck, our college graduates can't get jobs, people who are doing all the right things can't succeed. And when they dare to stand up and point this out, they get mocked. I guess as long as the American Dream isn't going away for YOUR kid, it's okay. Just don't count on much, with the economy and Karma!

I honestly haven't seen much coverage of the events because every time I try to watch something, I have to listen to some self-righteous a-hole berating these people, when they aren't slackers...there just aren't any jobs!!!

[BetaIotaDZ]

Originally Posted by AGDee

The Talker and his new gf are very into this and are part of the planning group for Occupy Detroit. From what I've read on the Occupy Detroit Facebook page, they are the Tea Party's liberal counterpart. They are protesting the "Rich get richer, poor get poorer" trend and are angry that the politicians aren't listening to the bottom 99%, just the top 1% and meeting corporate interests, not the interests of the people. That's the gist of the posts I'm reading anyway.

Occupy Detroit is scheduled for 10/21.

This explains it for me. The major parties must be frustrated that the two "splinter groups" are starting to thrive outside their nomenclature.

[DrPhil]

In reading more on Occupy Wall Street, I have so many thoughts on this that build off of *winter* and AGDee's posts, so here goes:

"The rich get richer, the poor get poorer" hasn't been a concern of the majority until it started hitting the doorsteps of those who comprise the economic minority of the population and power majority (read: working class and middle class whites). Link that to "the rich get richer, the poor get (insert negative social outcomes)." These dynamics persist for years until it begins to impact those whose socioeconomic conditions matter. Then it becomes a problem that we should all stop what we're doing and concentrate on. Sorry to break it to "you" (general) but some people have always been working to improve these conditions, long before you thought this stuff mattered.

Being overlydramatic from all perspectives (there are more than two perspectives) tends to do nothing more than make people panic and lose their brains along the way. Humans, not just Americans, tend not to do well when there is exaggerated hype and panic. People get irrational and that breeds negative outcomes. The best way to see human behavior is to see what humans do when they think shit has hit the fan and it's every woman/man for her/himself. The lack of compassion that people cite has always existed (throughout history and throughout the world) when people quickly weight their options and their resources. If uniting under a common cause has the greatest benefit then people will temporarily ignore their personal opinions and intolerance of others so they can unite under a common cause.

Occupy Wall Street is not automatically logical and effective just because it seems more in-your-face and overt in terms of allowing people to express their anger and frustration. The results, if any, remain to be seen...just like every formal protest. More importantly, there are all types of ways to protest and not all of them require a staged protest. The best way to get change to happen is to prove that this isn't just a fad sparked by temporary anger. And it isn't just a kickass time to post stuff on facebook.

/longwinded

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by *winter*

Yeah...but this country has been outsourcing jobs for 30 years now. I think everyone knows about it The question is, do the people who are profiting from it care? Are they even capable of caring? I honestly don't think so.

All it's done is give the people who already make stupid, ignorant comments a target at which to direct their next stupid, ignorant comment. More of the same- why don't you have a job? You must be lazy. You could be job-searcing right now instead of protesting. (Guess they never heard of iPhones and multi-tasking?) They need to shower, no wonder no one will hire them. And on and on.

The problem in this country is that we've lost our f***ing compassion. People are so busy judging each other and worrying that $5 more dollars a month might come out of their check for taxes that they can't see the forest for the trees. The American Dream is GOING AWAY- that's right, GOING AWAY. Our schools suck, our college graduates can't get jobs, people who are doing all the right things can't succeed. And when they dare to stand up and point this out, they get mocked. I guess as long as the American Dream isn't going away for YOUR kid, it's okay. Just don't count on much, with the economy and Karma!

I honestly haven't seen much coverage of the events because every time I try to watch something, I have to listen to some self-righteous a-hole berating these people, when they aren't slackers...there just aren't any jobs!!!

To follow up on the outsourcing, clearly, we're all aware of it. The mass migration of desk-type jobs has been a phenomenon of the past decade or so. I guess what I should have said is that I'd like to see some action taken on that knowledge in light of the current employment situation and economy. Perhaps increase corporate taxes on outsourced jobs and have the revenue be directed toward programs for the unemployed. I don't have the answer, but I know that the current situation is not working.

I know several people who are unemployed or underemployed currently who would jump at the chance for a call center job and be quite grateful for it. I know even more people who would be happy to speak to someone who isn't just reading off a script when they call a company to ask for help. Personally, I'd be thrilled to have my support personnel at work at a desk close by where I could explain issues that arise rather than try to communicate via email to people on the other side of the world who don't understand the business that I am in and are primarily paid to be button pushers and not to use their brains and learn the business.

To your point regarding compassion, I don't disagree with you, but I don't know that this has changed so dramatically. There have always been compassionate people in the world, and there have always been assholes. It just seems like the assholes are winning right now.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

To your point regarding compassion, I don't disagree with you, but I don't know that this has changed so dramatically. There have always been compassionate people in the world, and there have always been assholes.

Exactly @ the bolded

"Compassion" and "asshole" will always be subjective. You can be the most compassionate person in the world until it comes to something that you feel strongly about with no compromise and no empathy. That can be interpreted by others as being an asshole. I truly believe that every conscious and fully functional human has at least ONE THING that they are an asshole about. That includes humans who are unable (for any reason) to put their thoughts into words and actions.

[DrPhil]

Whose Side Are You On: The Moral Clarity of Occupy Wall Street

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/...py-wall-street

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

LOL @ bolded. Not sure what national media you read/watch but I CAN'T seem get away from coverage of this.

But speaking of undercovered stories, how bout that Eric Holder and his lying to Congress about his knowledge of Operation Fast & Furious....

Rick, Brian Terry was good friends with a lot of people I know. The truth is coming out little by little.

Originally Posted by AGDee

The Talker and his new gf are very into this and are part of the planning group for Occupy Detroit. From what I've read on the Occupy Detroit Facebook page, they are the Tea Party's liberal counterpart. They are protesting the "Rich get richer, poor get poorer" trend and are angry that the politicians aren't listening to the bottom 99%, just the top 1% and meeting corporate interests, not the interests of the people. That's the gist of the posts I'm reading anyway.

Occupy Detroit is scheduled for 10/21.

UGH where is this going to be? If they disrupt my commute and my friend's wedding, I will run them down.

[*winter*]

I think, honestly, there just aren't enough jobs. And we're unloading the ones we hav left. I'm not sure what the outcome is, or how to change it...do we line our streets with factories so we can make things again? Could we afford to make things again with the cost of health insurance and wages? It's almost too late to turn back the clock in some ways.

I think the movement of industries overseas began many of the problems we have in our country today. Look at cities- they were dealt the death blow by the outsourcing, and haven't recovered. I don't think it's a coincidence that after the availability of work for the average joe dried up that gangs and drug dealing became rampant. When people knew that if they finished high school, there were options available for them, we didn't have the level of problems we do nowadays.

So, instead of learning that we're accomplishing nothing by stripping away people's chance to work, we continue at it, and now it's hitting the college grads and professionals. Which chips further away at the American Dream- you do what you're "supposed" to do (althewhile accumulating large debts, for the average college student) and when you graduate, it's not even worth it.

[DTD Alum]

The interesting thing about the college/American Dream argument is that I think it's becoming clear to many that a college education (in general) is no longer an automatic key to success...instead in seems like it is now certain majors at certain colleges OR a master's that will guarantee success. College degrees are just so saturated amongst the population that it seems like just about everybody has one (although I know that's not the case), so I think to be really impressive both the school and the major now need to be impressive, not just the degree in and of itself.

I graduated from a school currently in the top 25 according to US News, and those of my pledge brothers/friends who graduated with majors that have practical applications (business, engineering mostly) are all successfully employed in great jobs (despite the market). Those that had majors that have less practical application (liberal arts types mostly) are really, really struggling despite their top 25 degree...one struggled for so long that he is currently coaching high school sports as his only source of income. My major began as history and I eventually switched it to business, and although I probably would have enjoyed my classes in the history major more, I am infinitely glad I switched...I was lucky enough to get more or less my dream job out of college, and I know I would be incredibly hard pressed to find adequate employment had my major been history.

It's to the point that somebody I know who is just beginning college was told by their parents that they would only be paying for their education if they have a practical major...this person is free to double major with a more liberal arts degree if they choose, but they have to have a major with immediate practical application. I can't say I blame them. I'm not agreeing with the state of things, I just think that for those beginning college the question of major practicality should be heavily thought about.

The thing that does bug me about these protests (and as we've discussed there is not really a cohesive message amongst the protestors and supporters, so this is a message that is admittedly not shared by all) is that there seems to be an underlying current of "the 1% was fed with a silver spoon, etc." While my family could only be called upper middle class, I went to school with several incredibly wealthy kids that were easily in that "1%". So many of them completely blew it, and so many of them that are doing an average job with their careers are not progressing despite their connection with the "1%". The ones who are wildly successful worked their asses off and made huge sacrifices for their careers. Sure, they had connections that others didn't that helped them, but they still worked damn hard for their current success. Many other people also had those connections and were not able to work hard and/or smart enough to utilize them correctly. To act like the majority of those with power and wealth were just handed it is fundamentally and reprehensibly incorrect. Like I said, not all protestors share this opinion and it's not a central message of these protests, but it seems to be an underlying current amongst some and I just do not agree with it.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

The interesting thing about the college/American Dream argument is that I think it's becoming clear to many that a college education (in general) is no longer an automatic key to success...instead in seems like it is now certain majors at certain colleges OR a master's that will guarantee success. College degrees are just so saturated amongst the population that it seems like just about everybody has one (although I know that's not the case), so I think to be really impressive both the school and the major now need to be impressive, not just the degree in and of itself.

I graduated from a school currently in the top 25 according to US News, and those of my pledge brothers/friends who graduated with majors that have practical applications (business, engineering mostly) are all successfully employed in great jobs (despite the market). Those that had majors that have less practical application (liberal arts types mostly) are really, really struggling despite their top 25 degree...one struggled for so long that he is currently coaching high school sports as his only source of income. My major began as history and I eventually switched it to business, and although I probably would have enjoyed my classes in the history major more, I am infinitely glad I switched...I was lucky enough to get more or less my dream job out of college, and I know I would be incredibly hard pressed to find adequate employment had my major been history.

It's to the point that somebody I know who is just beginning college was told by their parents that they would only be paying for their education if they have a practical major...this person is free to double major with a more liberal arts degree if they choose, but they have to have a major with immediate practical application. I can't say I blame them. I'm not agreeing with the state of things, I just think that for those beginning college the question of major practicality should be heavily thought about.

.

I agree with part of this. I think that practical use of your major is important. Where you get that degree...not so much. If you have a desirable skill set, it doesn't matter where you got those skills. For example, my brother went to the biggest nothing school in the state of Louisiana, a directional school, just like me, and majored in computer science. They didn't even have a computer engineering major. He got an interview with Google in college but didn't get the job. He worked in Mississippi for 5 or 6 years for a nationally known computer company improving his resume. He starts a new job as a Facebook engineer in November. Silicon Valley looks for talent everywhere. It doesn't matter where you go to school in medicine. If you are looking at academics, where you go makes a difference, but making it in the local workforce is a whole different story.