I just have to say it!

[mgdzkm433]

Is this a plug for this book?

I think that until you pick up the book and read through it, you speak very uninformed about rape.

People have opinions. It's not up to anyone to tell someone they are right or wrong.

Reading a book doesn't make ANYONE an authority on any subject. How can someone who has gone though and survived rape be uninformed? That's absurd! This isn't the only information on rape available to the public--there ARE other sources. Various sources say various things, give various conclusion, various options. There is no right or wrong way to deal with rape. All people are different and have to deal with it in their own way. If it's working to get past it--fine. If it's speaking out against it--fine. If it's therapy--fine.

There is no right or wrong way. As long as those people can live with themselves and the world around them, then their own way of dealing with their problems is the right way for them.

[bdricp]

I'm sorry if I came across as someone who has some interest in the book-I don't. But, it is through misinformation and age old ways of "handling" rape that it is allowed to continue. Like I said, read the book, you might come away with a totally different attitude. If we women are to blame for the continued victimization of ourselves-we are plainly stupid. And, like I said, the top professors in sociology, psychology, legal issues, etc,have put their works together to expose what has gone on far too long.

As an assault victim, I can say this-we tell ourselves a lot of lies to get through it-even that we have forgive our rapists, etc., and have gone on. No rape victim "just goes on" without a lot of scars.

Men contributed to this book, too. I find their grasp of the problem very profound. It definitely isn't just for women. In fact, if the men would read it, we would get a lot further down the road to change for the better-a lot faster.

This book has just come out and has received the highest reviews throughout the country that any book on the subject ever has. Like I said it comes from the most learned scholars on the subject-and it isn't about any particular case you are now discussing. On another note, being a rape victim does not make you an expert on the subject of rape. It means that you are a victim or survivor, not a expert. Any assault victim would have their best interests at heart taking the time to read this great new book.

[This message has been edited by bdricp (edited April 04, 2001).]

[mgdzkm433]

But, it is through misinformation and age old ways of "handling" rape that it is allowed to continue.

I don't think anyone here is 'handling' rape. This is a discussion board and we are discussing the issue of rape. The particular case that has come up here, time and time again, (I'm not sure if you're farmiliar with this particular case) is not about trying to surpress the girl. As a matter of fact, I believe most of the people here have said that if she really was raped that they truely are sorry. The fact is, most of the people don't believe her. Her particular case has had some media attention which was loaded down with tons of contradictory information. It's not a matter of trying to surpress her and keep her from talking, it's a matter believing her story.

If we women are to blame for the continued victimization of ourselves-we are plainly stupid.

I didn't read anything about anyone blaming women for victimizing themselves.

we tell ourselves a lot of lies to get through it-even that we have forgive our rapists, etc., and have gone on. No rape victim "just goes on" without a lot of scars.

I also don't think anyone has said that people DO go on without scars--of course they do. However, at the same time, life DOES go on. You either move with it or you don't. When I say Move on, I don't mean 'forget about it' or 'get over it', people can't do that. BUT, you can't sit there and feel sorry for yourself and live in that moment for the rest of your life. You have to move on--and in moving on--you can learn to deal with the scars, ease the pain, and learn from it--even teach from it. Doing these things DOES require people to continue with life.

On another note, being a rape victim does not make you an expert on the subject of rape. It means that you are a victim or survivor, not a expert.

I didn't say it made them experts, I said it didn't make them uninformed. They know what it's like to go through the situation. They are very informed on the feelings, the scars, the fear, the hurt, the legal, the medical . . . they aren't ignorant to the situation--or misinformed.

[dzrose93]

Well said, mgdzkm433!

[carnation]

Are we still trying to pretend that we don't know who bdricp or big drip or whatever her new name is?

[LSUTigerGirl]

Carnation--I was wondering the exact same thing!!!



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~A cloudy day is no match for a sunny disposition~

[soror6]

<<soror6 in her best Homer Simpson voice..>>

DOH!
OK, well what was it about? Can you give me a brief summary? Thanks dzroze! You're a gem!

[dzrose93]

I just e-mailed a reply to your address. Check it out and feel free to e-mail me back if you have questions!

[Dikaia]

Hearing horror stories such as this initially made me decide that joining the Greek system was not for me. I changed my mind when I found a Fraternity that was secure and proud enough of their beliefs and ideals to make them known to the public rather than hide them away in a shroud of secrecy. Secrecy works against Public Relations. I realize that your secrets are a part of your heritage, and I respect that. However when your organisations began, the secrecy was necessary. Greek letter societys were a persecuted minority. Today that secrecy has become obsolete and counter productive. Hazing was also an obsolete and counter productive tradition, but today many if not all GLO's are Anti-hazing. Just proof to show that no matter how old a tradition is, it can be changed. I hope to see the day when other GLO's realize these truths. Eliminate the secrecy and the public will be less likely to believe the horror stories.

[carnation]

Secrecy has absolutely nothing to do with hazing. Secrecy=tradition. Any non-Greek who is threatened by our "secrets" or any part of our heritage has got to be some uneducated loser because if he's not part of the Greek world, why should he care what we do?

[Billy Optimist]

Diakia,
Yeah, you're right, secercy does work against public relations. But it is also what initially atracted me to the greek system. Sharing a ritual that only your brothers can experience. That bond is what I'm after, and I think keeping it secret makes it all the more stronger. This obviously speculation, since i'm still GDI (gamma delta iota??), but based on what I've heard from others, I think that a fraternity ritual would be one of the greatest things someone could ever be a part of. I don't know, but I tink it'd be weird having people watching who weren't members.

[Hootie]

I'm only going to post this to clear up some misinformation, not to flame.
According to my pledge manual Chi Omega and many other women's fraternities were started because the women longed for the secrecy and unity they saw amongst the men's fraternity. It wasn't started as a plight to make everything secret, but it was something they found they could have that men couldn't.
So in a sense I believe all of us women should be PROUD of our heritage, regardless of secrecy or not. You must remember what brought us together and gave us strength...secrecy.
That's just my two-cents worth!
Hootie


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What do you get when you cross and Alpha Omicron Pi and a Sigma Phi Epsilon? A beautiful Chi Omega!!!

[IowaHawkeye]

Originally posted by Billy Optimist:
Diakia,
This obviously speculation, since i'm still GDI (gamma delta iota??),

Haha, Billy you crack me up a GDI is a gosh darn independent (god damn intependent)! But i have to agree with you - the secrecy part of greek life drew me in too. having secrest and rituals that only my sisters across the world know is an amazingthing to me. they've come to mean so much to me, and maybe i'm being selfish (no, i'm really not), but i'm not willing to share them with people who don't understand their meaning or importance to me.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by Dikaia:
Hearing horror stories such as this initially made me decide that joining the Greek system was not for me. I changed my mind when I found a Fraternity that was secure and proud enough of their beliefs and ideals to make them known to the public rather than hide them away in a shroud of secrecy. Secrecy works against Public Relations. I realize that your secrets are a part of your heritage, and I respect that. However when your organisations began, the secrecy was necessary. Greek letter societys were a persecuted minority. Today that secrecy has become obsolete and counter productive. Hazing was also an obsolete and counter productive tradition, but today many if not all GLO's are Anti-hazing. Just proof to show that no matter how old a tradition is, it can be changed. I hope to see the day when other GLO's realize these truths. Eliminate the secrecy and the public will be less likely to believe the horror stories.

Eliminate the secrecy? I'm sorry. I don't understand the logic here. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but you have to realize one thing. Our beliefs and ideals are no secret. They never have been. Ask any Delta Zeta and she will be proud to tell you the principles upon which our sorority was founded, what we stand for, and what we believe in. Want to know about our chapter history? We'll be glad to share that as well. Secrecy is not the problem here.

The fact of the matter is that the public will always choose to believe the "horror stories" because they are more interesting than the truth. That's why the National Enquirer is read by so many people. That's why the 5 o'clock news has a double murder as the top story instead of a piece about a police officer who was cited for bravery, or a group of kids who did something good for their community. Negative news sells - period. Making every little thing that happens in a particular GLO open to the public isn't going to change that fact.

[Dikaia]

Originally posted by carnation:
Secrecy has absolutely nothing to do with hazing. Secrecy=tradition. Any non-Greek who is threatened by our "secrets" or any part of our heritage has got to be some uneducated loser because if he's not part of the Greek world, why should he care what we do?

I didn't say secrecy had anything to do with hazing. I simply pointed out that both are/were counter productive practices that ought not to be continued. Still, you have to admit that being a secret organisation makes it look (at least to ignorant prospective Rushes such as I was) as if you possibly have something negative to hide. Hence the negative effect on PR. I learned when I joined Delta Upsilon that most other GLO's are in fact not as bad as they are made out to be by the public. Had I known that earlier I may have joined a Fraternity much sooner. Still, I'm proud to say that I can share my Fraternity's beliefs with others.