Philadelphia abortion doctor accused of murdering patient, newborns

[DaemonSeid]

AF...I don't think Dee is saying that.

I am thinking that she is putting this in historical context...and it's sad that this was going on.

[Alumiyum]

I interpreted her post to mean that because it's difficult for these women to get legal abortions they were going to this doctor to get illegal ones.

[DaemonSeid]

^^^this too

[AlphaFrog]

My response was more directed to the part about "severe restrictions on when they can be performed", and then her adding the comment about partial-birth...I can't even being myself to call it abortion, since you're not even TECHNICALLY aborting a pregnancy.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

My response was more directed to the part about "severe restrictions on when they can be performed", and then her adding the comment about partial-birth...I can't even being myself to call it abortion, since you're not even TECHNICALLY aborting a pregnancy.

Ok, yeah, I had a real problem with that too especially with him aborting fetuses close to term.

That he had no conscience doing it and that some women went that long before having this done really turned my stomach.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

That he had no conscience doing it and that some women went that long before having this done really turned my stomach.

They might have had valid reasons for going that long - they couldn't get an abortion at reputable places, they couldn't afford it, this was a last resort, things of that nature.

It's unfortunate that those who may actually need these procedures more often (lower socioeconomic status and all the sexual and opportunity-based implications that may have) usually have the hardest time being able to access them in safe and reputable conditions.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by agzg

They might have had valid reasons for going that long - they couldn't get an abortion at reputable places, they couldn't afford it, this was a last resort, things of that nature.

It's unfortunate that those who may actually need these procedures more often (lower socioeconomic status and all the sexual and opportunity-based implications that may have) usually have the hardest time being able to access them in safe and reputable conditions.

From what I read in the DA's report, it appears that it was indeed a facility of absolute last resort. It catered to very very very poor women, as well as immigrant women, some of whose English was not good, or had been used to unclean medical facilities. One of the former employees testified that there were a lot of African women who went there, many of whom had been victims of FGM. In the rare event that a white woman came in, there was a different waiting room and a different procedure room from the one used on women of color.

Basically, you have a lot of women who didn't know their bodies for whatever reasons; it's also believed that many of them didn't even know how far along they were.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by agzg

They might have had valid reasons for going that long - they couldn't get an abortion at reputable places, they couldn't afford it, this was a last resort, things of that nature.

It's unfortunate that those who may actually need these procedures more often (lower socioeconomic status and all the sexual and opportunity-based implications that may have) usually have the hardest time being able to access them in safe and reputable conditions.

If you can use Shady McQuack at 8 months, you could have used him at 3.

Either way, there is NO valid reason for aborting/murdering a viable baby. Period.

And you want your CHOICE? You got it, and you CHOSE to get nekkid. Choice made. That's my version of pro-choice.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Are you seriously saying that a VIABLE HUMAN should legally be able to be murdered?


I have two hotbutton issues. Abortion is one of them.

No. I am saying that when something is illegal, someone will still provide a means to do it. This is true for drugs, alcohol, smoking, abortion, whatever. There is no statement there about whether it is right or wrong, just that it happens and that I'm not surprised.

[honeychile]

There aren't the proper words for this. I know so many couples who would love to have a baby of any ethnic background, and end up going to another country to get them - and these people were allowing a baby to be born just so they could kill the poor thing? At what point does a person lose enough of his or her conscience to stab a baby to death? Then keep jars of the babies' feet or other parts? If this isn't considered Hitleresque, I don't know what would be.

My mother told me a lot of stories of many women she knew who had illegal abortions, and the most horrifying one doesn't hold a candle to this band of morally starved individuals. I don't care how anyone feels about abortion, this was flat out murder, multiplied several times over. The death penalty and lethal injection would be much too civilized for these poor excuses for human beings.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by honeychile

There aren't the proper words for this. I know so many couples who would love to have a baby of any ethnic background, and end up going to another country to get them - and these people were allowing a baby to be born just so they could kill the poor thing? At what point does a person lose enough of his or her conscience to stab a baby to death? Then keep jars of the babies' feet or other parts? If this isn't considered Hitleresque, I don't know what would be.

Hijack, but puhlease to the couples wanting babies and being "willing" to go overseas to adopt. There are far too many children in the system now waiting for families and far too many people making the decision to go abroad to adopt first.

And you need to qualify "these people" as in all the new reports I've seen and read (haven't gotten up to reading the grand jury report) many of the mothers who's fetus were "born" alive were not aware of this fact.

[AOII Angel]

This case is disgusting. I'm pro-choice, but this procedure is not reasonable. Anyway, not all shady abortion practitioners are outed so publically. Two physicians lost their licenses in MD last quarter. I just got my MD Medical Board bulletin last weekend. It's the best little bit of schadenfreude that we experience as physicians. We all pour through it looking to see if we know someone who screwed up (hopefully not for patient care issues, but there are usually lots of drug or alcohol abuse problems or physicians dinged for dating their patients.) One abortion provider actually killed a patient by not monitoring her correctly after providing anesthesia. The other would initiate the procedure in MD or DE and have the patient finish the procedure across state lines. I'm not sure what the benefit was since the procedure is legal. Maybe he was billing in both states for the same procedure? They didn't specify the full extent of the problem, but it got his license pulled. He probably had his license revoked in Delaware as well, since states have reciprocal agreements to enforce each other's medical board decisions. Lots of other shady things were in this issue, but I won't go into them.

[Kevin]

Luckily, Pennsylvania has the death penalty. If it's not administered here, it's hard to imagine why they have such a statute.

[victoriana]

This just makes me want to cry...

[KSUViolet06]

Don't eat before you read the grand jury reports. Ugh.