Sisters defending pledges over sisters - Page 2

33girl · #16 11-08-2001, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PnguinTrax
I'd say that if the sisters that are siding with the new members are among those that experienced this activity in the past, they probably felt the same way as the new members do now, but were to afraid to say anything about it back then.

That's a very big assumption to make. It might just be an issue of them being protective of the pledges and their feelings. It might not have bothered them (the actives) at all when they did it, but they would rather get rid of whatever it is than have someone cry "hazing" on them.

I've seen LOTS of people who enjoyed this or that pledge activity and then 2 years later, were against it not because they didn't have fun doing it but because nationals newly deemed it "hazing" and their butts were on the line. One of my sisters loved doing interviews during her pledge time, then became prez and had to enforce nationals' new program that didn't allow interviews. Did she agree with it? No. Did she enforce it? Yes. But she definitely wasn't saying "this is my revenge on you for hazing me!"

Plus, it might have nothing to do with something local...it might be a national requirement the pledges are objecting to.

MoxieGrrl · #17 11-08-2001, 11:31 PM

Tradition is good......but sometimes tradition can be crap. When it comes to older chapters, especially. My campus GLOs are all very old nationally, and some of the things they see as important because they are tradition are hazing. Just remember...tradition cannot hold up in a court of law.

Phi Gam man · #18 11-09-2001, 01:31 AM

"tradition should be a rudder, not an anchor..."

No excuse or tolerance for hazing... sounds like it to me...

equeen · #19 11-09-2001, 01:46 AM

...in front of Candidates (pledges, new members, etc.). Even if there is a difference of opinion with my Sisters, and even if I agree with the Candidate(s). HOWEVER...I may choose, after I have respectfully informed my Sister(s) that I disagree with their opinion/action, to profess to the Candidate that I see their point of view. I will even assist them in facilitating change - but only with the full knowledge and assent of the Chapter and my Sisters that I plan to take this action. And at that point, it's really something that the entire Sisterhood is unified for - thus making division a moot point.

I think this is a workable solution to the Catch-22 of respecting one's bond while nurturing the rising generation of Sisters.

NeonPi · #20 11-09-2001, 01:55 AM

2 thoughts ...

1) Tradition
Tradition is something that is respected, honoured, and enjoyed by all. Also, tradition isn't something done by the last 4 new member classes.

2) "Voted out by one vote" by Tom Earp
It takes a lot more for sororities to terminate a pledgeship - in fact, it can be pretty hard. (most NPC groups require a supervisory approval to even conduct a vote which must pass by 2/3s)

3) Reality ... bites back....
In this day in age, women (and men) have many more options to spend their free time than being yelled at or feeling forced to do something that they would be embarassed to tell their moms about. The Greek community really needs to wake up and see that we are becoming the exception, not the rule.

A good rule of thumb is if you are having an event that you wouldn't want your parents, advisers, or Founders to see/participate in , maybe it's not such a great after all .....

Tamba, I hope that your chapter realizes that althought it may not seem like it now, you have strong women as New Members who want to be proud members who cherish their time with you all, instead of just walking away with no explanation. In time, your chapter will be stronger for it. Good luck!

lovelyivy84 · #21 11-09-2001, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by equeen
...in front of Candidates (pledges, new members, etc.). Even if there is a difference of opinion with my Sisters, and even if I agree with the Candidate(s). HOWEVER...I may choose, after I have respectfully informed my Sister(s) that I disagree with their opinion/action, to profess to the Candidate that I see their point of view. I will even assist them in facilitating change - but only with the full knowledge and assent of the Chapter and my Sisters that I plan to take this action. And at that point, it's really something that the entire Sisterhood is unified for - thus making division a moot point.

I think this is a workable solution to the Catch-22 of respecting one's bond while nurturing the rising generation of Sisters.

EXCELLENT answer

justamom · #22 11-09-2001, 10:03 AM

This is one of those areas that has a LOT of grey. equeen, sounds like you have a very close group that others could strive for and envy. You are really lucky.

Sometimes I think there are just down right "_itchy" girls who complain about anything and everything. You could ask them to hang up their coat and they'd cry HAZING!!! We all know people like that... In fact my own KIDS can be like that! There is a young female pledge who is singularly disrupting her pledge class. EVERYTHING is hazing, right down to the chapter information she is expected to learn. Events that would be defined as "ice breakers" are curtailed because of this one person. She is NOT liked, she is NOT promoting unity. She is diversive. All because she can holler HAZING at every turn. I am sure she isn't an isolated example.

However, a rule is a rule, and that MUST be the greatest consideration for the wellbeing of the Chapter.

I just think some of the guidelines (or interpretaion of the guidelines) are too stringent. From drama class in college to training exercises in the Junior League, what we did by today's standards could be deemed hazing.

Ideal08 · #23 11-09-2001, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tamba
The pledges were actually yelling at the sisters even after they apolgized to them for the misunderstanding, telling them they were liars and malicious....

Now that right there, that is something that I can't even much fathom.

loviest95 · #24 11-09-2001, 01:31 PM

Pledges yelling at MEMBERS!! boy has the world changed, in my wildest dreams i would have never...

lovelyivy84 · #25 11-09-2001, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by loviest95
Pledges yelling at MEMBERS!! boy has the world changed, in my wildest dreams i would have never...

Would not have been a thought in my head!

Woulda been shakin that funky attitude for a long, long, time, probably out the door!

mccoyred · #26 11-09-2001, 01:48 PM

I thought it was just me!

Quote:

Originally posted by Ideal08

Now that right there, that is something that I can't even much fathom.

PenguinTrax · #27 11-09-2001, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mccoyred
I thought it was just me!

You have to remember the differences in new member programs between the NPC and the NPHC groups.

Most, althought not all, NPC groups now give new members full voting status (with the exception of officer elections) and full membership rights (with some exceptions for wearing of the Crest, letters, etc.) from the get-go. The new members still work very hard to learn the history and principles of their chosen organization, but the way new members are viewed in the sorority is much different from they way new members are viewed in the NPHC. At least, that has been my experience in reading and speaking with NPHC members.

Yes, there should be mutual respect between the initiated sisters and the new members. New members chastising sisters after an apology had been made is just rude.

mccoyred · #28 11-09-2001, 04:48 PM

Thanks, Penguin. I figured that was the case so I didn't say anything at first.

equeen · #29 11-09-2001, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by justamom
...equeen, sounds like you have a very close group that others could strive for and envy. You are really lucky.

Thank you, justamom...I do feel lucky. My Pride is a few good women.

I think it helps to treat Candidates as women you trust on all levels except where the sorority's standards, history, traditions, etc. are concerned - ie., treat them as people, not as children.

Basic human respect helps.

Barb, I had no idea that New Members in NPC sororities had voting privileges except officer elections. I always assumed that Pledges/Candidates/New Members etc. had a voice, but no voting priviledges until after initiating.

AKAtude · #30 11-09-2001, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by equeen
...in front of Candidates (pledges, new members, etc.). Even if there is a difference of opinion with my Sisters, and even if I agree with the Candidate(s). HOWEVER...I may choose, after I have respectfully informed my Sister(s) that I disagree with their opinion/action, to profess to the Candidate that I see their point of view. I will even assist them in facilitating change - but only with the full knowledge and assent of the Chapter and my Sisters that I plan to take this action. And at that point, it's really something that the entire Sisterhood is unified for - thus making division a moot point.

I think this is a workable solution to the Catch-22 of respecting one's bond while nurturing the rising generation of Sisters.

Even though I couldn't imagine this happening (like PnguinTrax said because of the differences), I agree with equeen.