Has someone of the opposite sex ever tried to pledge to your chapter?

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Good point.

Hypothetical question... what if you showed up to your organization's convention, and there was someone in the crowd that stuck out like a sore thumb. A male, wearing your letters. Upon investigation, you find out that he was once a female, and had joined your organization 20 years earlier, as a female. How would you feel?

(And guys, same question to you if you knew a female had gained membership in college as a male)

This is one of those situations I'm not sure about. Legally speaking (and strictly legally, not emotionally or traditionally), is someone who is transsexual LEGALLY their original sex?

How I would feel about it would depend on whether she had "beaten" the system or not. If she is still legally a man, and my frat's bylaws say that we're open to men, then dammit, I will just have to treat her the same as I would every other brother.

But if she was breaking a rule, I feel like I would point and laugh at the tranny.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I was hoping YOU would comment! Thanks for the information. So, does that mean these organizations aren't considered traditional "social" organizations?

If you mean are they "social" within the meaning of Title IX, then yes they are social.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Weren't little sister/little brother organizations disbanded, in large part, because they threatened Title IX exemption? If you allow a person of the opposite sex into a single-sex organization, you will lose the exemption altogether.

No, I don't think they'd lose the exemption, although practically it might not matter anymore.

I've heard this before -- that little sister/brother organizations were basically banned because of Title IX concerns, but I'm not sure how true that is. I think risk management was a much larger concern. (My fraternity classifies the policy banning auxilliary groups as a risk management policy.) There may have been some concern that little sister/brother groups constituted some kind of de facto "co-edness," and that if someone wanted to sue they might have a foothold, but I think that's unrelated to Title IX.

Title IX forbids schools (primary, secondary or college) that receive federal funds (including student aid) from recognizing or sponsoring single-sex organizations. There is a specific exemption for the "membership practices . . . of a social fraternity or social sorority which is exempt from taxation under section 501(a) of Title 26, the active membership of which consists primarily of students in attendance at an institution of higher education." (Other organizations, like Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are also exempt.)

This exemption means that social fraternities and sororities are not required to be co-ed, that they do not have to choose between single-sex status and school recognition. Professional fraternities did face such a choice -- go co-ed or go away, basically.

But I don't see why a social fraternity cannot choose to be co-ed and still be a social fraternity.

[dreamseeker]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Actually no. I know Psi U places no limits on membership on the national membership.

so can a woman join your organization?

[preciousjeni]

Weren't little sister/little brother organizations disbanded, in large part, because they threatened Title IX exemption? If you allow a person of the opposite sex into a single-sex organization, you will lose the exemption altogether.

If you want to intitiate both men and women, it stands to reason that you should voluntarily become a co-ed organization. The only catch is that it's a lot harder to be selective as a co-ed org.

Most co-ed orgs I'm aware of have open membership where anyone can join as long as they meet minimum standards and present no major red flags; whereas in a Title IX exempt org, you have more freedom to pick and choose who joins.

And, there is definitely more than one thread about this issue on Greekchat.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by dreamseeker

so can a woman join your organization?

It appears as though the NIC solely admits male-only organizations. Since Psi Upsilon is a member, it seems logical (at least to me) that Psi Upsilon is restricted to male membership only.

Of course, I'm neither a member of an NIC fraternity nor Psi Upsilon, so I can't comment with any authority.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by dreamseeker

so can a woman join your organization?

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

It appears as though the NIC solely admits male-only organizations. Since Psi Upsilon is a member, it seems logical (at least to me) that Psi Upsilon is restricted to male membership only.

Of course, I'm neither a member of an NIC fraternity nor Psi Upsilon, so I can't comment with any authority.

Answering for Vito, but Psi U is a member of the NIC and is co-ed. Delta Psi (aka, St. Anthony Hall), another NIC member, is also co-ed. Both Psi U and Delta Psi are historically all-male, but allowed chapters to go co-ed starting in the late 60s and 70s.

[akamie]

You're right senusret, they aren't the same. My point is that there's very little regarding what constitutes gender identity- I just used the languaged regarding Tri Sigma's stance on orientation to demonstrate that lack of clarity in the word "anyone".

National Panhellenic has this, but it didn't come around until 1995. Wonder why?
1995

Freedom of Association
The women's fraternities of NPC have the right to confine their membership to women, and their right to exist as single-sex organizations shall not be abrogated by any government agency or action. (In accordance with the provisions of Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972). Member groups will support the efforts of the United States House of Representatives to protect the rights of students to associate voluntarily in single-sex organizations.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by akamie

I'm wondering if any of you have ever encountered someone of the opposite sex trying to pledge to your sorority or fraternity. Why did they do it? What happened in the end?

We're doing some research at UAA about the role of alternative lifestyles in Greek Life regarding gender, but as far as we know we've never had a man try to join a sorority, or a woman try to join a fraternity. So there aren't any rules about it either.

-Amie
SigmaLove

I'm double posting, but "alternative lifestyles" just rubs me the wrong way. That could mean so many things, like nudists, child free people, vegetarians, people who don't have cars, and so on. I can think of people in Fairbanks living in dry cabins as having an "alternative lifestyle" before I'd think of anyone Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgendered, or Queer identifying. If you're talking about gender identity, sexuality, or anything like that, just say what it is you mean.

Oh, and is your research through a particular department or just for a class?

[Psi U MC Vito]

Yeah MC hit it one the nail. Also to clarify, on the national level Psi U is coed. While we never had language in the constitution specifying that somebody had to be a male to be a member, it was kind of understood that you had to be. Then one chapter was forced to admit female brothers by the school and successfully argued that they did nothing against the constitution at our convention. Now it is up to the chapters to choose whether or not to be coed, though most are all male.

[dreamseeker]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Yeah MC hit it one the nail. Also to clarify, on the national level Psi U is coed. While we never had language in the constitution specifying that somebody had to be a male to be a member, it was kind of understood that you had to be. Then one chapter was forced to admit female brothers by the school and successfully argued that they did nothing against the constitution at our convention. Now it is up to the chapters to choose whether or not to be coed, though most are all male.

oooh. that's interesting. thanks.

[Senusret I]

True story: I once did see some brothers who looked like stud lesbians.

I was EXTRA confused. But I ain't ask shizzat.... I was like "None of my business, no sirree"

[als463]

Originally Posted by akamie

I'm wondering if any of you have ever encountered someone of the opposite sex trying to pledge to your sorority or fraternity. Why did they do it? What happened in the end?

We're doing some research at UAA about the role of alternative lifestyles in Greek Life regarding gender, but as far as we know we've never had a man try to join a sorority, or a woman try to join a fraternity. So there aren't any rules about it either.

-Amie
SigmaLove

Amie, I did your survey. It seems like a very interesting topic. I'll admit that I answered the question as to whether or not I would want a transgendered person in my sorority and I said no. Please let us know how your research goes!

[Psi U MC Vito]

From the way I heard it, Little Sisters was more a risk management thing then anything else. There was also problems with Little Sisters playing Composite Bingo and that causing problems among the the brothers.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Composite Bingo

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I actually heard that from a brother at one of my other chapters and started cracking up.