Murder at Va. Tech

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

It does, it just is kept from the public. I was surprised to hear that there were reported rapes on my campus which is very small and commuter.

If it were legal to discriminate based on a mental evaluation, my campus would have been half what it was. Seriously so many weird and crazy people. Then again doesn't mean that they have a mental problem, more like a creepy factor.

Careful because at this point, you then may have to quantify what is considered 'weird and crazy'.

Some of the most heinous crimes ever committed were done by people by all counts appeared to be sane.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Careful because at this point, you then may have to quantify what is considered 'weird and crazy'.

Some of the most heinous crimes ever committed were done by people by all counts appeared to be sane.

You're totally right because a lot of people who do have mental illnesses don't show it and you'd never know. The few people I know never really show it until they get really stressed out. What I meant is that there were people who you would think, by their actions, may have something.

On a serious note, as far as doing evaluations, I've found that there are more people out there who are bi-polar and clinically depressed than you'd think. If we're talking about schizophrenia it's one thing. Some people have severe cases and some people don't show it at all. But I'm not sure if bi-polar or being clinically depressed would have much of an effect on their work. I guess it all depends on the severity of it.

In Cho's case, he did show signs of mental illness. Did this guy? Another thing I wonder is how China deals with mental illness.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

You're totally right because a lot of people who do have mental illnesses don't show it and you'd never know. The few people I know never really show it until they get really stressed out. What I meant is that there were people who you would think, by their actions, may have something.

On a serious note, as far as doing evaluations, I've found that there are more people out there who are bi-polar and clinically depressed than you'd think. If we're talking about schizophrenia it's one thing. Some people have severe cases and some people don't show it at all. But I'm not sure if bi-polar or being clinically depressed would have much of an effect on their work. I guess it all depends on the severity of it.

In Cho's case, he did show signs of mental illness. Did this guy? Another thing I wonder is how China deals with mental illness.

That's because the ones that are sometimes the most stressed are the same ones struggling to put on a 'happy face'.

Ever notice some of the same crimes that are considered 'senseless' when you look further on the inside, the perpetrator is seen as normal.

Went about a normal life

Was nice to people but because they thought that they were 'normal' that they didn't need to see anyone (and the average 'normal' person is likely to shrug off help), we fail to see the sign manifesting that this person is set to go off.

ON THE OTHER HAND...it's a build up of everyday things but you wouldn't think it would drive a person to murder...

Check this article out, and while you are reading it, we all may think, "Well that's not enough to go out and kill somebody for."

Excerpt:

The university said in a news conference Thursday that Zhu had not been under review by its ‘Threat Assessment’ or ‘CARE’ teams.
It also said Zhu had not come before the workings of the Virginia Tech or Blacksburg police departments.
Fellow graduate student and teaching assistant, Ken Stanton, paints a different picture of Zho.

“It’s hard to believe he would be involved in something like this, he says.“


http://www.wsls.com/sls/news/local/n...new_him/25757/

Some people are just constantly in a foul mood and even then it may not be enough signs to say "Oh he is going to kill someone", just "Stay out of his way" and what do we do once they manifest? Ignore them.

This particular article states that the suspect was contantly belligerent and left signs something was about to happen that no one followed up on, and yes, in the link below I believe your question was answered about this fellow's mental state:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,482524,00.html


Forget about China and how they deal with mental illness, fact is, across all strata, we, in general are in denial sometimes about our own mental well being (genrally speaking, people, not quoting facts) we sometimes in daily situations try hard to handle our own problems without seeking professional help because we are too far from hitting rock bottom to declare that we are weak and not strong enough to solve our own problems. It's part of why we turn to certain addictions and not just drugs and alcohol, but why some of us do strange things to find an outlet and think that it's 'normal'.

I'll stop here....peep the articles and you all leave your opinions.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Another thing I wonder is how China deals with mental illness.

I would surmise that China considers mental illness to be a "Western problem" only. When the Soviet Union had that serial killer, Andrei Chikatilo, running around, it took a while for them to even acknowledge the idea that they had a serial killer on the loose, let alone put forward efforts to catch him (which they eventually did). That's Communist mentality for you.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

I would surmise that China considers mental illness to be a "Western problem" only. When the Soviet Union had that serial killer, Andrei Chikatilo, running around, it took a while for them to even acknowledge the idea that they had a serial killer on the loose, let alone put forward efforts to catch him (which they eventually did). That's Communist mentality for you.

damn...he was a bad evil man...one thing I noted is that Russia wasted no time executing when they finally put their minds to it...question is, would they have released him the frst time had they mentally evaluated him.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

damn...he was a bad evil man...one thing I noted is that Russia wasted no time executing when they finally put their minds to it...question is, would they have released him the frst time had they mentally evaluated him.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/s...lo/coat_1.html

They actually questioned him a first time, but released him because his seminal antigens did not match the blood antigens, or something like that. Later on, they found out that this was actually a mistake! ARGH!

But anyone, if you can stomach it, read the full story on Crime Library.com - it pretty much tells the full story.

One thing about Chikatilo - he definitely had some deviancy going on, but I don't know if you can really say that he had 'mental illness'. Whereas, that Chinese student at Va.Tech who did the beheading and Vince Li (Greyhound bus killer and beheader) - they were both Chinese Nationals and I would predict that they both have some type of schizophrenia going on.

But yeah, I stand by my statement that China is behind the times in terms of being "up" on things like mental illness.

[AGDee]

My gut instinct is that the Chinese see mental illness as a family shame and hide it. However, since I work with quite a few people who grew up in China, I will ask them about it, unless someone can chime in definitively before then.

[DaemonSeid]

We are speaking about China..what about the US?

What about people who go out and kill their families, including the DOG before they turn the gun upon themselves?

What about the ones that kill people and then wait months, weeks or years before they lie to report that they were even missing?

What about those who kill and do something heinous like try to BBQ the body or hack them to peices?

What about people who kill their pregnant spouses and try to cover the crime?

What about kids who get their hands on guns and shoot someone because they got their foot stepped on or saw it on GTA or got influenced to kill because they saw it on wrestling?

And so on...let's not make this a China problem or an Asian problem because America can just as easily turn the mirror upon itself when it comes to senseless killings and mental disabilities.


ETA: Think about this case:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...tory?track=rss

[AKA_Monet]

Let me be clear on this: I do know quite a bit about mental illness, both personally and through my own scientific inquiry and literature review...

As I understand it, most universities do a general admissions process. Fill out forms, write an essay, take required tests (SAT, ACT, etc.), then letters of recommendations. We all know this. My question is, how much stock is put into this essay? How well is it mentally evaluated? Because through writing, we can tell someone real-time mental thinking versus when mom wrote the essay...

Secondly, as for other cultures, I do know for a fact that numerous cultures are ignorant and unaware about mental illness. They are clueless as to when one suffers and have know clue as to what that looks like. The person, often suffers in silence and isolation, and usually winds up causing harm to him or herself, maybe others. The thinking is some parts of the culture, is that this person was weak, was not saved, etc. That is still a judgment. Welcome to the stigma of mental illness. The people who witness the after-effects, often wonder how come the person did not seek help, etc. Let's chalk it up to "health disparities" and lack of "cultural competencies"...

My business is devoted to eradicating the stigma, ending disparities and improving competencies. This goes to say, Zhu had identifiable problems prior to killing this young lady... As for Cho, the way I read the information, he was severely emotionally disturbed long before going to VT and that is probably why his parents moved to the US so he could get effective treatment. Either of them could have not been admitted, but that is another form of burying the problem or passing the buck, rather than confronting the issue: How about having the "infrastructure" where ANYONE can get what they need in care? Because most universities have cut mental health services to EVERYONE...

And just because someone has a strong mental illness, does not mean the are uneducated or retarded. It means there is something (generally chemically) in their brain that disrupts/disconnects appropriate emotional responses to social environments. The mind is a part of the body and is an organ, too. No one would tell a cancer patient to endure the pain of tumors and get over it, so why would the same thing be said to someone who is mentally ill, where the tumors are the bad thoughts?

Lastly, the US still stigmatizes and has mythology associated with mental illness. Why? Who knows? While tolerated more than other countries, I care about this country and how we can improve mental health awareness. Until you have walked a mile in someone shoes who is suffering from mental angst, do not judge him/her and fearing him/her is silly. Become aware, informed and educated.

Nameste',

Dr. G-

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by AGDee

My gut instinct is that the Chinese see mental illness as a family shame and hide it.

I think you are pretty bang on. Tell us what your contact said. I am interested to hear his/her take on it.

As for the Baltimore Sun story, that kid was battered for years and years at the hands of his father. He was traumatized but I wouldn't say he was mentally ill.

Whereas, at the Virginia Tech beheading, it sounds like the 2 students barely knew each other and the Greyhound Case, it was completely out of the blue (the murder victim was sleeping and listening to his IPod). Maybe some people are born with a defect in their brains and makes them act out so violently or think that they perceive some threat to their own person. And sadly, I cannot see that any amount of "screening" will ever be able to prevent this.

And with that note, I am off to bed.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

And just because someone has a strong mental illness, does not mean the are uneducated or retarded.

You're not equating being "retarded" with being uneducated, right? It seems like you are in your post, and that just seems like an odd thing to say in the context of the rest of your post.

I may just be a little hypersensitive to it because I have a couple of special education teachers in my family (including a college professor/former administrator who is an expert on the subject), but that's how I read your statement.

[AGDee]

I was in no way implying that our mental health system and our treatment of the mentally ill is good. I worked in the field for 13 years and watched it deteriorate first hand. There is still a huge stigma in the US against the mentally ill. MOST people with mental illness aren't going to behead someone. There are mentally ill people in all walks of life. There are those who stay on medications and they work for them and you interact with them every day and don't even know it. To not allow anybody with a mental illness to go to college isn't a good solution. 66% of the homeless are people who are mentally ill. If you take away all opportunities for someone with a mental illness to get an education, you are pretty much relegating them to be in poverty. Additionally most mental illnesses first manifest themselves around college age. You can't screen for something that hasn't happened yet. I don't see it providing much benefit, honestly.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

You're not equating being "retarded" with being uneducated, right? It seems like you are in your post, and that just seems like an odd thing to say in the context of the rest of your post.

I may just be a little hypersensitive to it because I have a couple of special education teachers in my family (including a college professor/former administrator who is an expert on the subject), but that's how I read your statement.

No, I did not equate the 2. I have written it incorrectly. But there are quite a few low IQ people in that are imprisoned who would qualify for mental retardation, but just test on the cuff...

I can understand your hypersensitivity to the subject as I am for those who suffer mental illness and are harmless.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I was in no way implying that our mental health system and our treatment of the mentally ill is good. I worked in the field for 13 years and watched it deteriorate first hand. There is still a huge stigma in the US against the mentally ill. MOST people with mental illness aren't going to behead someone. There are mentally ill people in all walks of life. There are those who stay on medications and they work for them and you interact with them every day and don't even know it. To not allow anybody with a mental illness to go to college isn't a good solution. 66% of the homeless are people who are mentally ill. If you take away all opportunities for someone with a mental illness to get an education, you are pretty much relegating them to be in poverty. Additionally most mental illnesses first manifest themselves around college age. You can't screen for something that hasn't happened yet. I don't see it providing much benefit, honestly.

Very good analysis. I agree!

One thing that peaks my interests though, with all the treatment options, diagnoses and workshops available, especially on a college campus, how come we still have students feeling so out of control that they have no one to talk to, to discuss their internal issues in an appreciative environment?

We can be all "cold cruel world", "deal with it", "it's like that, and that's the way it is", mentality, but how are we benefitting when this person chooses to go off into the "deep end" and harm another human being? Is there no consideration?

And we do not have to "police thoughts", we just have to broadcast/market the service or application that is user-friendly, demonstrable, and make and see the changes in people.

The young man who killed the young lady had a huge language barrier. Culturally, he probably did not fathom that his thoughts were hurtful to him or her until he committed the act. The young lady had not feeling she could contact legal authorities. For whatever reason, she did not know she could reach out in this country, regardless of her legal status. The part that pains me is trying to explain what happened to her loved ones at home, in China...