Wear letters at a bar??

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

To me, it seems much more to the point to say "Remember that when you wear letters that you represent ABG to the world; be careful not to do anything while wearing letters that would reflect badly on ABG."

As the Greeks might say, moderation in all things; nothing in excess. (But yeah, we are talking about college students. )

Follow whatever rules your org has seen fit to adopt, but don't look at other orgs askew if they have decided on different rules.

First of all, it's just easier and more to the point to say "Don't drink in letters," rather than fall into the gray area involving people using their "good judgment" to determine whether their behavior is appropriate and upholding the ideals of the organization.

And it's not that we don't trust our own members, but I know that even I've been a little more drunk than I originally intended at times, and when I go out at 10pm, I don't know what's going to happen between then and 3am when I roll back to my apartment. We all know we've had those nights when we've said, "Oh, I'll just have one or two," but those two turn into ten.

And secondly,

Originally Posted by ilovetheviolets

The difference in my mind is whether the National Organization allows or supports it.

I'm not judging other sorority members if their organizations allow this to happen. From what I understand, there are many fraternities that don't have any rules concerning this. But from what I can tell, there are many people who are drinking in letters when their organizations say that they can't. And yes, when you choose to ignore the rules set forth by your national organization, and post pictures on Facebook of yourself breaking those rules, I might lose just an ounce of respect for you... especially when all you have to do is put on another shirt.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I'm not judging other sorority members if their organizations allow this to happen. From what I understand, there are many fraternities that don't have any rules concerning this.

I don't know of any fraternity that does have a rule banning drinking in letters. Is there one?

First of all, it's just easier and more to the point to say "Don't drink in letters," rather than fall into the gray area involving people using their "good judgment" to determine whether their behavior is appropriate and upholding the ideals of the organization.

It's easier, but not more to the point, in my opinion. More to the point would be to expect members to use good judgment and uphold the ideals of the organization in any situation, including while drinking, since that is what the actual purpose of the rule is, but it would be a harder standard.

I'm not criticising AST or any other org for adopting a "no drinking in letters" rule. I'm just pointing out that there are different ways to look at this particular issue.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't know of any fraternity that does have a rule banning drinking in letters. Is there one?

It's easier, but not more to the point, in my opinion. More to the point would be to expect members to use good judgment and uphold the ideals of the organization in any situation, including while drinking, since that is what the actual purpose of the rule is, but it would be a harder standard.

I'm not criticising AST or any other org for adopting a "no drinking in letters" rule. I'm just pointing out that there are different ways to look at this particular issue.

I don't know of any fraternity that has a rule concerning this, but I couldn't say that none of them do, because I simply haven't looked up rules stated by every fraternity. So there's definitely a possibility that none of them restrict the wearing of letters while drinking.

And I know you're not criticizing AST, I'm just giving my point of view, as well And yes, in an ideal world, you could simply say to members, "Use good judgment," and everyone's definition of those words would be the same, and no one would drink too much or act inappropriately while wearing letters.

But in reality, that doesn't happen. And just like we sometimes judge potential new members for being crazy and out of control while drunk, I'm sure they do the same thing with us. And I know that not all ASTs are perfect, and I'm sure that there have been a few that have done ridiculous things while drunk (and members from other sororities probably have, also), and I'm glad that my organization restricts those people from wearing letters to the bar so that everyone out that night won't think, "Wow, those are what the ASTs are like." As everyone always says here (generally referring to hazing incidents), actions of a few shouldn't be attributed to the entire organization... but it's human nature, and it happens.

[OhTheAlphaTau]

Even at my school, with only three NPC sororities, the rules vary dramatically. Although Alpha Sigma Tau has a strict "no drinking in letters" policy, our alcohol rules have a lot of gray areas. The other sororities on campus do not follow their rules as seriously as we do. I believe they both have a policy, but it is pretty much overlooked and they have gained their reputations through that. I like our rule because it assures that we retain our reputation! As for wearing letters to a bar, I can't believe that they would do that even without having a rule. If you were at a bar and saw a group of girls with ABC or XYZ sorority letters on, wouldn't you remember the next time you see those girls? The first thought in your head would be "wow, those ABC/XYZ girls were trashed last weekend!"

[SWTXBelle]

I am actually not 100% sure it is an international policy or not, but I've never known a Gamma Phi who would wear letters while drinking. Even if you are behaving yourself, the question is whether or not that is an appropriate place for letters. I'd say better safe than sorry, and from a pr standpoint it would be best not to wear your letters while drinking. It is a double-standard - fraternities seem to have no problem with it.

[OhTheAlphaTau]

We are advised to not wear our letters to frat houses, bars or other places where alcohol is present.

[SthrnZeta]

Originally Posted by OhTheAlphaTau

We are advised to not wear our letters to frat houses, bars or other places where alcohol is present.

Ditto.

And besides, I think we would have dressed up a little bit to go out, even just to some bar, than wear a lettered t-shirt. If we wore a t-shirt out to a bar, it was for a basketball game or something.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by ilovetheviolets

This is more for Sorority women than Fraternty men...

I have recently heard from two people that there are sororities that are allowed to wear their letters out at bars (one supposedly encourages it, which I find hard to believe). I didn't know if this was true, I searched both alcohol policies, but did not find anything in there directly stating they shouldn't. Please, any info. would help. For now I will leave out the names of the 2 organizations I heard of doing this, if you want to know, please, PM me.

I'd say just do what you want (within reason), fuck what anyone thinks.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

I do not have a problem being in a bar or around alcohol. If I make a commitment to one or two then you will be hard pressed to find me doing otherwise. Being in a bar (even with letters) does not make you an alcoholic, an incontrollable drinker, or a bad person.

If I saw a group of women in their letters drinking, the only time I would think twice about it is if they were actually drunk. Just being present there doesn't mean they are going to exhibit poor behavior. Half the time, no one needs the letters on if they are drinking because if they start acting crazy someone will most certainly point it out.

Being around alcohol in letters isn't the problem. Alcohol is not the problem. It's people with piss poor judgment that are the problem.

If your org. says it's okay, then it's okay. If your org. says it's not, then it's obviously not. But I'm not out there worrying about so and so and their org.'s repuatation. It's not that deep.

[als463]

I agree with the fact that drinking excessively in letters is poor judgement. That's why I thought it was odd that the year I graduated from Penn State-University Park, I would say that a handful of chapters actually had "XYZ bar tour" shirts made up. I don't mean one or two girls in a chapter, I mean all of the seniors actually graduating. The point of the "bar tour" is to drink heavily-and (many, not all) Penn Staters are known for doing it well. I actually went on my bar tour with my sisters but, we had other stupid saying shirts made up for that reason alone.

One chapter that was on probation wore shirts that said something along the lines like, "We are on probation-so we are wearing our letters" on the back and the front had letters.

I don't really drink much but, when I do-I try not to wear my letters because I know how bad I can get.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by als463

One chapter that was on probation wore shirts that said something along the lines like, "We are on probation-so we are wearing our letters" on the back and the front had letters.

Wow. That's just sad.

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

I do not have a problem being in a bar or around alcohol. If I make a commitment to one or two then you will be hard pressed to find me doing otherwise. Being in a bar (even with letters) does not make you an alcoholic, an incontrollable drinker, or a bad person.

If I saw a group of women in their letters drinking, the only time I would think twice about it is if they were actually drunk. Just being present there doesn't mean they are going to exhibit poor behavior. Half the time, no one needs the letters on if they are drinking because if they start acting crazy someone will most certainly point it out.

Being around alcohol in letters isn't the problem. Alcohol is not the problem. It's people with piss poor judgment that are the problem.

If your org. says it's okay, then it's okay. If your org. says it's not, then it's obviously not. But I'm not out there worrying about so and so and their org.'s repuatation. It's not that deep.

I think part of the alcohol "problem" is that it's made into such a problem. The first paragraph is right on point. There isn't anything wrong with drinking reposnsibly or going out to a bar. And honestly who gets drunk more often...the kids under 21 or over? In my experience getting drunk, for most people, has lost its appeal by 21, because at that point they are forced to grow up a little. School is harder, graduation is a lot closer, and their hangovers get progressively worse. For this reason I can understand chapters having a rule against drinking in letters, alums should be adult enough to make decisions without being kept in line by a myriad of rules.

We focus so often on alcoholalcoholalcohol we rarely focus on teaching adult behaviors and decision making skills. My undergrad experience has, in my opinion, identified alcohol has the "problem" in my chapter when that isn't the problem at all-lack of examples in leadership, lack of education, and lack of PATIENCE with college students, who, let's face it, WILL screw up are the problems.

The reason the rule about letters and alcohol that many of us have in place is because of liability. I've always had a little lack of patience with rabid rule followers who foam at the mouth at the sight of, for instance, a girl who didn't close her jacket all the way when smoking, a beer in the hand of someone who has letters on the wall in the background, or an occasional **** in letters, but it's the alcohol that bothers me the most. I have no problem whatsoever following it, but it isn't out of respect, it's out of fear of being connected with an alcohol binge gone wrong.

I try to be well groomed and well behaved when I wear my letters. I can have a glass of wine at dinner with family and friends and be both of those things, and that's still being respectful. I can also do that in a bar. Should I decide to go bat-shit crazy and drink myself silly, I'm being disrespectful, but then again, so is anything else that disrespects myself: whoring myself out, not praticing basic hygine, not doing my best in school, etc.

[lucgreek]

At my school you'd be hardpressed to find a social greek organization's members wearing their letters at the bar. Even the MGC members don't wear their letters to the bar. I've only seen Delta Sigma Pi, Alpha Kappa Psi, and APO wear their letters to the bar, and they're just professional or service organizations. I know the sororities on campus would die if their members were wearing letters at the bar and there was a picture.

Like someone said earlier, if you end up doing stupid stuff, the biggest thing people will remember is "Remember that XYZ letting that 45 year old guy do body shots off her?"

[Buttonz]

In my school we would all wear our jackets out to the bar...but that's because we wore our jackets almost everywhere. It was great at the end of a nigh to have to sort through a pile of lettered jackets and usually knowing what jacket belonged to who by the pattern of the letters.

There were parties that were thrown that you would get reduced admission if you showed up in letters. So we would either wear rhinestone letters and not get trashed, or show up in a sweatshirt, get our reduced admission and then take the sweatshirt off once we got into the bar.

To me, as long as I'm not planning on getting sh**faced, I have no problem wearing letters out to a bar. Then again, very rarely do I have a night that I go out and get sh**faced without knowing that I'm planning on it beforehand.

[AOII Angel]

I think we would have laughed at anyone wearing letters in a bar. Even in my little hick college town, you dress up to go out! We did, however, have an "exemption" to wear our letters to bid night party (before they did away with that!) and Pikefest every year. All 4 NPC groups on campus would wear bid shirts (with full sewn on letters) to bid night parties and Pikefest where drinking was rampant and excessive. I guess since all groups participated we got away with it.

***But...for the record, AOII does not allow drinking in letters!