The Last Presidential Debate 10.15.08 @ 9PM

[RU OX Alum]

no matter who wins I won't like the vice-president

[MysticCat]

I do think it was McCain's best debate yet except . . .

We watched it on CNN which had a split screen most of the time. The looks on McCain's face when Obama was talking were priceless, and not in a good way for McCain. It was almost like he was trying live up to the characterization of him as an angry, erratic old man. One of the pundits on CNN (can't remember who) said afterward that he looked an old Mr. Crotchety who's always yelling "Get off my lawn, y' darn kids!" It not look presidential.

And I have to comment on this as well: At one point I asked my wife if there was something wrong with McCain's dentures. I don't know that he wears them, and there's nothing wrong with wearing them, but his speech at times sounded like someone whose dentures aren't fitting quite right, and I didn't think it was helping his image of the candidate in his 70s with Sarah Palin as his running mate. Ten or fifteen minutes later, my 11-year-old came downstairs to get something before bed. He watched for a couple of minutes and then asked, "Is something wrong with McCain's dentures?" Yes, I laughed.

As for McCain going after Obama, that didn't play well with CNN's Ohio focus group. Their dial-meter readings dropped off noticeably when McCain did that. Same thing with Joe the Plumber. As soon as those words would come out of McCain's mouth, the approval would drop off markedly.

It was McCain's best debate, but as someone said, too little too late, and it was aimed at the wrong people. It played well to McCain's supporters -- it energized them and injected some much needed enthusiasm for the McCain campaign. But they aren't the people McCain needed to reach -- he needed to reach the independent/swing voters who are still deciding. Going on the attack about Ayers and acting like he can't control his anger don't help him get that group. (ETA: And he needed to try and convince some who are planning to vote for Obama to change their minds.) To those people, McCain "going on the attack" didn't look bold and decisive; it looked, well, erratic, angry and irrelevant to what people care about (the economy). Meanwhile, what looked like Obama's "smugness" to McCain's supporters looked, I think, like self-control and coolness-under-pressure to others.

All the polls I saw were showing the perception that Obama won hands down. I think we've hit the point where most people were seeing McCain (and Obama) through the lens of the opinions they'd already formed.

[LeslieAGD]

I'd like to see a "Miss America" style debate. You get two minutes to answer a question and your competitor is in a little soundproof booth so you can't hear their answer. If you don't respond to the actual question, you don't "move on" (ie - you get skipped for the next question). No going back and commenting on previous responses!

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by LeslieAGD

I'd like to see a "Miss America" style debate. You get two minutes to answer a question and your competitor is in a little soundproof booth so you can't hear their answer. If you don't respond to the actual question, you don't "move on" (ie - you get skipped for the next question). No going back and commenting on previous responses!

as long as there is no bathing suit competition...it sounds like a fine idea....

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

as long as there is no bathing suit competition...it sounds like a fine idea....

LOL.

Is next . . . Eveningwear! Very Nice.

This piece posted at FiveThirtyEight.com is interesting: Where McCain Lost It.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I do think it was McCain's best debate yet except . . .

We watched it on CNN which had a split screen most of the time. The looks on McCain's face when Obama was talking were priceless, and not in a good way for McCain. It was almost like he was trying live up to the characterization of him as an angry, erratic old man. One of the pundits on CNN (can't remember who) said afterward that he looked an old Mr. Crotchety who's always yelling "Get off my lawn, y' darn kids!" It not look presidential.

And I have to comment on this as well: At one point I asked my wife if there was something wrong with McCain's dentures. I don't know that he wears them, and there's nothing wrong with wearing them, but his speech at times sounded like someone whose dentures aren't fitting quite right, and I didn't think it was helping his image of the candidate in his 70s with Sarah Palin as his running mate. Ten or fifteen minutes later, my 11-year-old came downstairs to get something before bed. He watched for a couple of minutes and then asked, "Is something wrong with McCain's dentures?" Yes, I laughed.

As for McCain going after Obama, that didn't play well with CNN's Ohio focus group. Their dial-meter readings dropped off noticeably when McCain did that. Same thing with Joe the Plumber. As soon as those words would come out of McCain's mouth, the approval would drop off markedly.

It was McCain's best debate, but as someone said, too little too late, and it was aimed at the wrong people. It played well to McCain's supporters -- it energized them and injected some much needed enthusiasm for the McCain campaign. But they aren't the people McCain needed to reach -- he needed to reach the independent/swing voters who are still deciding. Going on the attack about Ayers and acting like he can't control his anger don't help him get that group. (ETA: And he needed to try and convince some who are planning to vote for Obama to change their minds.) To those people, McCain "going on the attack" didn't look bold and decisive; it looked, well, erratic, angry and irrelevant to what people care about (the economy). Meanwhile, what looked like Obama's "smugness" to McCain's supporters looked, I think, like self-control and coolness-under-pressure to others.

All the polls I saw were showing the perception that Obama won hands down. I think we've hit the point where most people were seeing McCain (and Obama) through the lens of the opinions they'd already formed.

I had the exact same reaction to the split screen -- it did NOT do McCain any favors. And I agree with everything you posted above, I also read that fivethirtyeight.com article this morning and agree with it, too.

[NutBrnHair]

The split screen also showed Obama smiling & laughing when McCain spoke.

[OtterXO]

I actually thought McCain did better last night than the other debates. Like a few people have said though, the trouble with "doing better" is that right now he's not trying to win over conservatives, he's trying to win the swing voters. For a voter like me (who admittedly has been leaning Obama since the announcement of Palin as VP) he needed to explain how Palin wasn't a liability and how he wouldn't make it a priority overturn Roe v. Wade. Instead he doesn't explain anything about Palin and basically says that he would pick judges based on qualifications but (really fast at the end of his answer - I almost didn't catch it) that he "do[es] not believe that someone who has supported Roe v. Wade that would be part of those qualifications."

I think for people who already supported McCain, it was a good debate. Definitely his best of the three. But I don't think he addressed the issues that independent voters are focused on, at least where I live.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

The split screen also showed Obama smiling & laughing when McCain spoke.

It did, but IMHO (and the opinions of quite a few others I've heard comment on it), Obama's smiles and laughs came across differently.

Again, bearing in mind what I said earlier -- that we may have reached the point where we were all seeing the debate through the lens of the opinions we've already formed -- Obama's smiles and laughs, in the contezxt of his general appearance as cool and controlled, typically came across as "that's just so silly or so off that it's not worth responding to," while McCain's came across as angry or (in the words of one of my co-workers) "deranged."

Granted, these are all subjective perceptions, but that's what a lot of it is about now. The snap polls, at least, seem to indicate that, while McCain did his best debate job yet, the debate did not help improve his perception among the voters he needs to reach.

[exlurker]

And now, in the aftermath, we get this news: the real Joe the Plumber, who was mentioned a couple of dozen times in the debate, and who seemingly is [well, maybe was] Senator McCain's symbol of those who might face tax problems .... . ...... Well, Joe apparently owes $1,100 plus to the state of Ohio. For unpaid taxes. Income taxes.


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/s...6047360&page=1

Excerpt:

"There is a judgment lien against him for nonpayment of income tax," Barb Losie, deputy clerk of the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas, told ABCNews.com.

I'd almost feel sorry for Senator McCain, except that this is exactly the kind of stuff a decent campaign worker / factchecker should have found out before Joe made it into the script / prep for the third debate speeches. A quick check of public records, just as a precaution, would have been a good idea.

Oh well, every campaign has glitches.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

It did, but IMHO (and the opinions of quite a few others I've heard comment on it), Obama's smiles and laughs came across differently.

Again, bearing in mind what I said earlier -- that we may have reached the point where we were all seeing the debate through the lens of the opinions we've already formed -- Obama's smiles and laughs, in the contezxt of his general appearance as cool and controlled, typically came across as "that's just so silly or so off that it's not worth responding to," while McCain's came across as angry or (in the words of one of my co-workers) "deranged."

Granted, these are all subjective perceptions, but that's what a lot of it is about now. The snap polls, at least, seem to indicate that, while McCain did his best debate job yet, the debate did not help improve his perception among the voters he needs to reach.

Yeah, I agree with your interpretation of how people are seeing the debate. I was reading right leaning coverage, and it referred to Obama's smug smirk.

[JonoBN41]

It was a great debate that finally made up my mind who to vote for. For the second time in as many debates, McCain brought up the 3 million Obama voted in favor of for an "overhead projector" for a planetarium - which BTW was never approved. Since I have a telescope housed in my own observatory I looked it up, and it's a the Adler Planetarium in Chicago. Their old star projector - it's about the size of a small car - is old and no longer supported by Zeiss, the manufacturer, and they need a new one. It will cost 10 million, seven of which will be raised privately.

The media did not pick up on this, I suppose, because science just doesn't stimulate the public. But it's what put us on the moon, put satellites into orbit for weather, communications, and national security, and gave us views from the Hubble that will unlock the secrets of the universe. Many people are first inspired by a visit to a planetarium, and go on to dedicate themselves to life in science. The public needs more exposure to it, not less.

McCain doesn't see the value in it, and uses it against Obama as nothing more than wasteful pork barrel spending. If that's his attitude, then I'm voting for Obama. It's time we had someone who's well educated in the White House, and someone who appreciates the value of education.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by JonoBN41

It was a great debate that finally made up my mind who to vote for. For the second time in as many debates, McCain brought up the 3 million Obama voted in favor of for an "overhead projector" for a planetarium - which BTW was never approved. Since I have a telescope housed in my own observatory I looked it up, and it's a the Adler Planetarium in Chicago. Their old star projector - it's about the size of a small car - is old and no longer supported by Zeiss, the manufacturer, and they need a new one. It will cost 10 million, seven of which will be raised privately.

The media did not pick up on this, I suppose, because science just doesn't stimulate the public. But it's what put us on the moon, put satellites into orbit for weather, communications, and national security, and gave us views from the Hubble that will unlock the secrets of the universe. Many people are first inspired by a visit to a planetarium, and go on to dedicate themselves to life in science. The public needs more exposure to it, not less.

McCain doesn't see the value in it, and uses it against Obama as nothing more than wasteful pork barrel spending. If that's his attitude, then I'm voting for Obama. It's time we had someone who's well educated in the White House, and someone who appreciates the value of education.

Some science obviously should be funded at that national level, but it's hard to see why this particular item, while worthy of being paid for at some level, needs to be paid for at the Federal level.

[JonoBN41]

My point was that McCain called it an "overhead projector", like you'd place a book on to show the class in high school. He wanted us to think it was absurdly wasteful, like the million dollar toilet seat for a C5. In effect, he lied.

So in this case McCains' mudslinging backfired, and he convinced me to vote for the other candidate.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by JonoBN41

My point was that McCain called it an "overhead projector", like you'd place a book on to show the class in high school. He wanted us to think it was absurdly wasteful, like the million dollar toilet seat for a C5. In effect, he lied.

So in this case McCains' mudslinging backfired, and he convinced me to vote for the other candidate.

Technically it's an accurate description. It projects things overhead. Just sayin'.