Plegdes wearing letters???

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by blulady

People, how difficult is it to just understand that everyone's organization is just not the same. Understand that if organizations in the NPC are permitted to wear their letters with any combination of colors it is because their colors may not have the level of significance to their organization as do members of the NPHC. As a member of an NPHC organization, I can say that our colors have a ritualistic, secretive meaning; therefore we are not permitted to wear our letters with any color just because we like the way it looks, or whatever the case may be.

I understand what you are saying...NPC and NPHC are very different creatures, but don't misunderstand the NPC. Just because AXORissa thinks that her colors aren't particularly meaningful does not mean that every NPC has random colors with no meaning in ritual. Since I can only speak for AOII, I will say that our color, Cardinal, is representative of our core ideal. As for the letters, etc. before initiation and color of sorority/fraternity 'nalia, NPC has changed a lot over time to suit the change in culture. In the beginning women in AOII were only allowed to represent AOII with their membership badges. They were not allowed to wear letters on anything else. Our founders liked the "simple" representation of our badge...we don't have a crest for this reason. They didn't use the rose in place of a crest because they didn't want a crest in the first place. Members changed things as the years went by, but the spirit of our ritual has remained unchanged despite what members choose to wear and when they are allowed to wear them.

[Tom Earp]

First off it is good to stir up the pot a bit.

I am a Brother of not only LXA, LX Z Chapter but APO, Beta Upsilon Chapter.

My basic question will now be, How do you have your New Associates Show on Campus they have Asociated with Your Organization?

Do you keep them under wraps untill Initiation and then say TADA this is a new Member?

Could they not proudly wear Letters or some sign of recognition. Could they not help to promote the Group that they Associated with and go out and sell You Organization to others for the Informal Rush or next Sem. Rush! This is how a Greek Organization grows.

I am not speaking for LXA, but myself! Do you not want people on Your Campus to know who you have Assiociated?

That is my main question!

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
First off it is good to stir up the pot a bit.

I am a Brother of not only LXA, LX Z Chapter but APO, Beta Upsilon Chapter.

My basic question will now be, How do you have your New Associates Show on Campus they have Asociated with Your Organization?

Do you keep them under wraps untill Initiation and then say TADA this is a new Member?

Could they not proudly wear Letters or some sign of recognition. Could they not help to promote the Group that they Associated with and go out and sell You Organization to others for the Informal Rush or next Sem. Rush! This is how a Greek Organization grows.

I am not speaking for LXA, but myself! Do you not want people on Your Campus to know who you have Assiociated?

That is my main question!

TOM. THEY DON'T.

NPHC does rush differently than us.

It's okay. It works for them.

Just let them be. They have a different intake process, they have a different pledge process, they operate differently. It works just fine.

DROP IT.

PLEASE.

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
My basic question will now be, How do you have your New Associates Show on Campus they have Asociated with Your Organization?

Not speaking for all organizations, because everywhere it is different. Generally, NPHC organizations and other BGLOs have a Neophyte Show, in which new INITIATES (not pledges) are introduced to the campus for the first time. Different things happen at neophyte shows, but in general they are the first time that a new initiate is associated publically with their organization. It is a big deal -- the entire campus, chapter alumni, parents, and friends are invited.

In absence of a Neophyte Show, which involves stepping, chanting, and singing, some organizations have a reception, banquet, or more formal event to introduce the new initiates.

And some orgs have no debut at all. You will know who the new initiates are when they start wearing paraphernalia.

Do you keep them under wraps untill Initiation and then say TADA this is a new Member?

Pretty much.

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Could they not proudly wear Letters or some sign of recognition. Could they not help to promote the Group that they Associated with and go out and sell You Organization to others for the Informal Rush or next Sem. Rush! This is how a Greek Organization grows.

That may be how YOUR Greek organization grows, but most NPHC organizations do not take that approach.

It is not the job of aspirants to promote the organization, first and foremost. In NPHC organizations, that responsibility falls on the initiated members.

Also, SOME NPHC organizations DO have forms of recognition during their membership intake process, such as pledge pins. It depends on the organization.

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Do you not want people on Your Campus to know who you have Assiociated?

In general, no. Membership intake is a matter involving the members of the organization, the potential members, and the college administration.

[Tom Earp]

GeekyP, I was not looking at any Particular group whether it any one Type of Organization does things! OK!

If the NHPC want to do it their way OK!

I still think I had a valid question and your problem is?

If any other Greek Organization want to do it Their way, that is fine! OK?

I just asked a question and wanted to find an answer, Period!

I will never say My Organization is 100 % right as I do not agree with them all of the time, just like I do not do here!

If I as A LXA am not Proud enough to let the Total Campus know that these fine young men have decide to Join My Organization, then that is Me and My Fraternity to do it our way!

You may now refrain from climbing up my back side!

[Senusret I]

Tom,

First of all, you're welcome.

Second of all, it is NPHC.

NOT HNPC.

Please edit your post.

[starang21]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
First off it is good to stir up the pot a bit.


Do you keep them under wraps untill Initiation and then say TADA this is a new Member?

i take it no one has ever heard of a probate or postbate.

[starang21]

Originally posted by 33girl
And if I saw an ASA sister wearing DZ letters, that would be a situation. I'm trying to explain the logic of why NPC groups might not put the same importance on wearing letters in the group's colors only and/or wearing the colors in general, and find something to equate it to so both sides can get a handle on it.

i'm not really trying to understand the logic. if you don't put the same importance on your colors, cool...no sweat of our backs. we value the colors of our organizations, that's why you'll NEVER see any of us with letters in anything except them.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by starang21
i take it no one has ever heard of a probate or postbate.

Actually, I never had until GC.

[DGMarie]

Originally posted by blulady
Before 1990 aspirants to orgs. of the NPHC wore identifying clothing and carried items unique to the org they were pursuing membership with.

I'll show my age but this is how I remember NPHC at the U of S. Carolina in the late 1980's. One particular sorority (red was the color I recall) used to have their aspirants wear identical clothing, right down to matching khaki raincoats. They had to walk one behind the other where ever they went. And one group of men, Alpha Phi Alpha, used to perform nearly nightly outside my large, 11 story dorm. their aspirants (I think) used to chant and step and perform and we would all gather and look out our windows and watch. It was very interesting but it did not look like much fun. Especially all the marching around wearing raincoats and carrying paddles (I think it was paddles). I'll never forget the chant: A-L-P-H-A P-H-I, A-L-P-H-A ALPHA PHI ALPHA!

[AXORissa]

Originally posted by starang21
i take it no one has ever heard of a probate or postbate.

I havent...

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by AXORissa
I havent...

A "Probate Show" is often used interchangeably with "Neophyte Show."

However, probate is a misnomer these days. Pre-1990, there was a stage of the membership process called the "Probationary" stage. You were no longer a pledge, but also not a member. Generally speaking, the probate stage lasted for about a week before initiation -- hell week. During this time, the probates of the chapter would publically perform songs, chants, steps, and complex greetings of the Big Brothers/Sisters of the chapter.

Nowadays, the term probate show really means Neophyte Show. Performing such shows while not a member is considered against intake rules.

"Postbate" is a made-up word to describe that a neophyte show happens "post" initiation.

[DGMarie]

Originally posted by blulady
Because pledging as we (NPHC) once knew it is now forbidden, no org of the NPHC wants anyone to be able to identify its potential new members simply because of the penalties they may face if it is discovered.

Is the reason it is now forbidden because it would be considered hazing? Or have I missed something in this thread. Why did in 1990 everything change? I'm confused as to why an organization would be penalized (by whom?) if it were discovered they were intaking new members (which they all are anyway).

Lost again, I'm afraid.

[starang21]

wow, are people really that interested in what goes on behind close doors in the NPHC organizations?

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by DGMarie
Is the reason it is now forbidden because it would be considered hazing? Or have I missed something in this thread. Why did in 1990 everything change? I'm confused as to why an organization would be penalized (by whom?) if it were discovered they were intaking new members (which they all are anyway).

Lost again, I'm afraid.

Traditional pledging has been abolished as a requirement for membership in NPHC organizations. Each affiliate organization has adopted a standardized selection and membership intake process, unique to each organization, that conveys the information deemed important to know before initiation.

The "old school" elements of pledging, such as dressing alike in public, carrying conspicuous items unique to the org, and public greetings of the initiated members, have been deemed improper. Always forbidden were paddling, assault, and all those other activities that are universally seen as hazing.

1990 was the year that things changed dramatically in all of the organizations because the year before, a pledge of one of the organizations died (of a pre-existing heart condition) while performing unsanctioned pledging activities. The Council of Presidents met and decided to re-examine the issue of pledging. The outcome was to abolish it all together and replace it with the membership intake programs.

According to "Black Greek 101" by Dr. Walter Kimbrough, pledging continued but was taken "underground." The clandestine nature of the pledging process arose because students wanted to maintain pre-1990 traditions, some of which were hazing, some of which were not. Undergraduate members were particularly resistant to the change, says Kimbrough, because they felt that they would not recieve respect if they had not gone through a process similar to which the older members had gone through.

The NPHC way of doing things, then, can be seen as secretive for two reasons:

1) Because Membership Intake is a private and discreet process by which members are selected and trained for membership.

2) Because some affiliates are still performing unsanctioned activities that will get their chapters suspended or dechartered if revealed.

If "Membership Intake" is discovered, it can result in the suprise of a neophyte show being ruined.

If "Pledging" is discovered, it can result in a chapter being suspended or dechartered.