Cover Causes Controversy - Page 11

MysticCat · #**151** 08-15-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZTAMiami

Here is a link with loads of info about all the crappy marketing directed at young children.

http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/index.html

Interesting, but they lost me with this:

CCFC supports the rights of children to grow up – and the rights of parents to raise them – without being undermined by rampant consumerism.

Like so many other groups and movements, CCFC seems to take a reasonable idea -- understanding and countering commercialism directed at kids -- and takes it to a ridiculous extreme. Where is it writ that children have a "right . . . to grow up . . . without being undermined by rampant consumerism"? I know of no such "right." I certainly did not have the benefit of that right in the 1960s. It's not that I don't think consumerism directed at children doesn't exist or isn't a problem. It's that I don't think the "solutions" offered by groups like Campaign For A Commercial-Free Childhood are actual solutions.

Drolefille is exactly right -- don't blame the companies for capitalizing on the fact that too many parents lack backbones. The reality is that commercialism pervades our society. My opinion (note: my opinion) is that kids are worse off if we try to shield them from it, because sooner or later they will have to face it. I think my kids are better off learning to see through it now.

How does my 8-year-old know to tell his sister not to believe everything she sees in advertising? Because we let him spend some of his valuable money on something he saw an ad for and had to have. We told him it didn't look worth anything, but we let him decide. I'm glad we did -- he was very disappointed in the product and learned not to trust commercials. Now when his sister sees a commercial and says "I really want that," he answers "You may think you do, but be careful. They make things sound great in the commercials so you'll buy them, and then they turn out to be not that great."

For my money, that's much better than spending time fighting for his "right to grow up without being undermined by rampant consumerism."

I'll have my Ovaltine now, Little Orphan Annie.

tunatartare · #**152** 08-15-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZTAMiami

What, you don't think this is important? Or you don't believe companies market products to children?

No, I believe companies market their products to the children's parents. No matter how much Ashley may want that new Barbie doll, she has neither the means nor the resources to get it. Her mother, however, does.

KSig RC · #**153** 08-15-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZTAMiami

Here is a link with loads of info about all the crappy marketing directed at young children.

http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/index.html

Welp . . .

1 - Having trouble really getting down with a site whose .pdf materials contain blatant spelling and logic errors . . . 'Yo Gi Go' is a full-length product commercial? Beyond failing with the title of one of the most profitable children's brands in history (which should, thus, be a centerpiece argument for them), by trying to end this behavior on the 'supply side' (via promoting regulation to eliminate this, essentially re-regulating the industry) they ignore such quandries as "does the product even effectively exist (thus removing the 'ad' sense) if the parent is in control of purchases?" and "what is the utility of entertainment to the child, and how does this relate to whatever downsides we're insinuating?" You're digging up great resources, but they're quite biased and don't really structure arguments in the ways you're insinuating.

2 - MARKETING. TO. TODDLERS. I couldn't even get through the entire thing.

Look, how does this site mean society isn't "child-friendly"? If anything, this proves that children are where the DOLLAR POWER for family spending is truly located - what kind of "anti-child" behavior is expressed in the tacit acknowledgement that profitable sales pitches can be delivered to children (who have ZERO earning power on their own)?

Bottom line: this site actually shows how pro-child society has become - children have a larger status in marketing behavior than at any point in history. They are not working, unlike hundreds of years ago - they have negative earning potential. Thus, marketing toward children indicates that society has given them some other way to spend (parents, sociological trends) that makes the marketing profitable - society favors children.

You're coming to a conclusion I just can't accept, and that isn't really supported by reasoning.

AlphaFrog · #**154** 08-15-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLPDaisy

No, I believe companies market their products to the children's parents. No matter how much Ashley may want that new Barbie doll, she has neither the means nor the resources to get it. Her mother, however, does.

However, in the great words of Bart & Lisa Simpson:

"Can we have a pool, Dad?

Can we have a pool, Dad?

Can we have a pool, Dad?

Can we have a pool, Dad?

Can we have a pool, Dad?

Can we have a pool, Dad?

Can we have a pool, Dad?"

Can be pretty effective, therefore, yes, I believe they do market directly to children.

Drolefille · #**155** 08-15-2006, 01:25 PM

The reason Teens are the most highly marketed group these days as far as TV shows/commercials etc is because they have an unprecedented amount of spending money.

It's not like they're working more (plenty do work) but that the cash comes from mommy and daddy. Those same kids who wrecked 3-4 cars through their high school career, brand new nonetheless, bought every new technological innovation as soon as it came out.

A toddler who watches Dora and sees an ad for Kraft Mac 'n Cheese (do they even do ads during Nick Jr?) may say "mommy I want some" but they can't buy it.

I'm not nearly old enough to have witnessed this, but radio shows used to do equally shameless promotions. Remember The Christmas Story where the kid gets his Orphan Annie decoder ring? And it tells him to buy more cereal? (Don't recall if it was TV or radio, but it's the same thing) This has been going on for years.

Grow a spine and don't buy your kid whatever they want. Even if they're going to throw a tantrum in the store. Walk out and get your stuff later without them.

/painting kids/teens with a broad brush, but thats how ad execs do it.

Drolefille · #**156** 08-15-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

However, in the great words of Bart & Lisa Simpson:

"Can we have a pool, Dad?

Can we have a pool, Dad?

Can we have a pool, Dad?

Can we have a pool, Dad?

Can we have a pool, Dad?

Can we have a pool, Dad?

Can we have a pool, Dad?"

Can be pretty effective, therefore, yes, I believe they do market directly to children.

How many times did you ask your parents for a pony/pool/large expensive thing?

No matter how many times I asked for a pool, the answer would have been no. And my parents would eventually have punished me for being a pain in the ass.

AlphaFrog · #**157** 08-15-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

A toddler who watches Dora and sees an ad for Kraft Mac 'n Cheese (do they even do ads during Nick Jr?) may say "mommy I want some" but they can't buy it.

No ads on Nick Jr...except for ads for more Nick Jr. Shows.

In fact, there was a radio personality that was talking about how she didn't allow her daughter to EVER see a commercial until she was 4 (and that was on accident).

/Mariana LOVES Dora. We were on her website just last night.

AlphaFrog · #**158** 08-15-2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

How many times did you ask your parents for a pony/pool/large expensive thing?

No matter how many times I asked for a pool, the answer would have been no. And my parents would eventually have punished me for being a pain in the ass.

Pool was an example. Quoting the Simpsons. Point is, kids can see commericals and get extremely annoying until their parents cave and buy them what they want. Should they? No, parents shouldn't always buy the kid what they want. Does it happen? YES, ALL THE TIME...that's why the ads work.

Drolefille · #**159** 08-15-2006, 01:31 PM

Ah, then apply my previous example to a Cartoon Network show instead. Same thing applies.

Although the fact that Disney... Playhouse i think and Nick Jr. DON'T have commercial ads is an argument against the targeting of toddlers.

Drolefille · #**160** 08-15-2006, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Pool was an example. Quoting the Simpsons. Point is, kids can see commericals and get extremely annoying until their parents cave and buy them what they want. Should they? No, parents shouldn't always buy the kid what they want. Does it happen? YES, ALL THE TIME...that's why the ads work.

Right, which is why the corporations do it.

But it's not the corporations fault, they're just taking advantage of the fact that parents all to often give in when they shouldn't. There's a reason small toys are near the check out where kids can grab and demand them.

I'm not saying you're a bad parent if you give in to your kids, but don't blame the commercial for your giving in.

/generic you

SydneyK · #**161** 08-15-2006, 01:40 PM

I think the two positions here are closer than we might think. While kids can (and do) certainly repeat their requests ad nauseum, it is the parents who ultimately make the purchasing decision. So, the parents are being marketed to via their kids. But, when parents buy Baby Einstein videos for their infants (who can't yet speak) the kids are not the ones being targeted; the parents are.

When hubby and I got our first dog, we thought, "PetSmart, PetCo, etc... are huge money-makers. People will spend tons of money on their pets!" Then, when we had our first child, we said, "BabiesRUs, Baby Depot, etc... are huge money-makers. People will spend tons of money on their kids!"

Where am I going with this?? I guess it's just pretty clear that companies are in business to make money. And, they'll market to anyone - parent, kid, teenager, dog owner, etc. - in order to make a profit. Kids and parents are targeted by marketing experts, and as long as there are companies, they always will be.

The only way to protect kids from being bombarded by advertising is to keep them secluded. They'll be facing advertising all their life by their peers, sports idols, parents, etc. It's the job of parents to educate their kids about advertising, not protect them from it. There's simply no escaping it.

So, yes, kids are being marketed to. And yes, parents are being marketed to.

-steps off soapbox

MysticCat · #**162** 08-15-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Remember The Christmas Story where the kid gets his Orphan Annie decoder ring? And it tells him to buy more cereal? (Don't recall if it was TV or radio, but it's the same thing)

Ooooo, no. It tells him to "Drink more Ovaltine." (See the last line in my last post.

)

KSig RC · #**163** 08-15-2006, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

The reason Teens are the most highly marketed group these days as far as TV shows/commercials etc is because they have an unprecedented amount of spending money.

It's not like they're working more (plenty do work) but that the cash comes from mommy and daddy. Those same kids who wrecked 3-4 cars through their high school career, brand new nonetheless, bought every new technological innovation as soon as it came out.

This actually isn't all that true - not to mention that the stereotyping you've presented is somewhat irresponsible. I won't get too deep into the stats right now (I can if you want), but the data do not support your 'spoiled kids' theory (other than a brief dip in 99-03, teen employment has risen pretty steadily, it's actually that savings have dropped).

Also, while the enabling mechanism might be similar for adolescents and pre-adolescent children, I think we can safely argue them separately - I don't think, for instance, that work-eligible children are the primary focus for sites advocating against ads targeting children.

adpiucf · #**164** 08-15-2006, 02:23 PM

Reading this thread is fabulous birth control.

Just click your heels together three times and say, "There's no place like singlehood."

/Love my dog, but if I had to do it over, I'd never start with a puppy. I can't imagine trying to raise a kid.

valkyrie · #**165** 08-15-2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adpiucf

Reading this thread is fabulous birth control.

Just click your heels together three times and say, "There's no place like singlehood."

/Love my dog, but if I had to do it over, I'd never start with a puppy. I can't imagine trying to raise a kid.

LOL. I'm not single, but I'm not having kids. Or puppies. Kittens are fine.