Non-social GLOs...do you honestly consider us fellow Greeks?

[bets]

Originally posted by sairose

Yes, I was talking about Emily and Audra. Isn't Emily still a Phi Mu? I thought she was...I really like her. I used to go to her church. I don't really know why Audra isn't still a Phi Mu; I haven't heard her say much about Phi Mu except that they have a really pretty badge, and maybe a few other random things.

Sairose, I'm pm you about this.

[orchid2]

Hmmm, well yes and no.

Phi Mu Alpha is huge at my school. It's older than any of the social greek organizations, and it has a really strong and steadfast brotherhood. Although they are a professional music fraternity, they are also very social. They have their own house, and hold parties throughout the year, as well as mixers with other greek organizations. (We had a pirate mixer with them last fall... they serenaded us at the end. I thought it was the sweetest thing!) SAI has only been around since for about 10-20 years. I think they still do social things, but I don't see them nearly as much as the Phi Mu Alphas.

The only reason why I am reluctant to classify them as "real" greeks is because they are not members of NPC/IFC/NPHC. So they're not listed on the rush booklets sent out to incoming freshmen, and rush separately. There are many other greek-letter honor societies and professional/interest groups, and in my opinion, this is the category into which the music fraternities best fit.

[Mystic Cat32]

Orchid2,
We are currently making advances at the National Level to become members of the NIC. Additionally, we're registered with the US Government as an official "Social" fraternity. We are not limited to music majors nor minors. We have brothers in all walks of life. Fraternally, Mystic Cat32

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by orchid2 (in part)
Hmmm, well yes and no.

Phi Mu Alpha is huge at my school. It's older than any of the social greek organizations, and it has a really strong and steadfast brotherhood. Although they are a professional music fraternity, they are also very social. . . .

The only reason why I am reluctant to classify them as "real" greeks is because they are not members of NPC/IFC/NPHC. So they're not listed on the rush booklets sent out to incoming freshmen, and rush separately.

Orchid2, the Phi Mu Alpha chapter at your school is not (it seems this can't be said enough) a professional music fraternity -- as a Fraternity, we officially and definitively decided not to be a professional fraternity almost 20 years ago. Phi Mu Alpha is a social fraternity for men (regardless of major or career plans) who have a special interest in music. In this regard, it is probably more akin to Triangle, Alpha Gamma Rho, or Farmhouse then to professional fraternities.

As for IFC membership, as has been said above, many Sinfonia chapters have joined their chapter's IFCs, and so far as I have heard, have found the results from doing that to be very positive. Perhaps the chapter at your school should be encouraged to consider it. Someone at National could probably give them some guidance.

I know I'm starting to repeat myself, so I'll try to keep quiet on this subject for a while.

BTW, where are you in school? I'm really glad to hear that the chapter there is so strong.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by dzsaigirl (in part)
Oh, and I won't even lie...PMA at my school tries to act like they are what they "think" a social is, but seclude themselves because I handed them a campus hazing policy one semester and told them to cool it...That is one dangerous thing about this seclusion issue. The spotlight is always on social greeks, so by separating yourself, you can get away with way more shady stuff, which is what they do. I feel a slight bit of guilt for outing them like that, but...

One of the challenges of the last few decades for Phi Mu Alpha has been the whole professional/social thing. An even bigger one has been elimination of hazing -- something that historically we have had a real problem with. A great deal of progress has made, but there are still some chapters that seem unwilling to get with the program. Frankly, I think this may well be a reason that some chapters try to perpetuate their seclusion, as you call it. Believe me -- you shouldn't feel any guilt for "outing" them. Just tell yourself that you are trying to help them live up to what Sinfonia stands for.

[newsun]

Originally posted by Mystic Cat32

We are currently making advances at the National Level to become members of the NIC. Additionally, we're registered with the US Government as an official "Social" fraternity. We are not limited to music majors nor minors. We have brothers in all walks of life. Fraternally, Mystic Cat32

Maybe some confusion stems from Phi Mu Alpha belonging to PFA (Professional Fraternty Assn.) instead of NIC at the national level. Once you are members of NIC and require all your chapters to be members of the campus Interfraternity Conference, the identity confusion will probably go away.

[orchid2]

Originally posted by MysticCat81


Orchid2, the Phi Mu Alpha chapter at your school is not (it seems this can't be said enough) a professional music fraternity -- as a Fraternity, we officially and definitively decided not to be a professional fraternity almost 20 years ago. Phi Mu Alpha is a social fraternity for men (regardless of major or career plans) who have a special interest in music.
..............
BTW, where are you in school? I'm really glad to hear that the chapter there is so strong.

I stand corrected! Sorry about that, MysticCat81... thats just what I've always heard and assumed. Anyway, I go to Jacksonville State in Alabama.

[AlphaSigLana]

I agree with what Carnation and 33girl have said.
My roommate my freshman yr was in Kappa Kappa Psi. I know that they did big/little and had a retreat, but that is all I heard. I never heard of them doing any service projects, sisterhood/brotherhoods and I never saw them wear letters, so I guess I would not consider them Greek(WAIT BEFORE GETTING UPSET) since they did not do the typical greek things, that does not mean they care less, it just means they weren't well known on campus and social GLO would not hang out with them as a group to do socials with-- I am not saying we wouldn't hang out with them bc they were in band.

[emb021]

Originally posted by ktsnake
When I see professional or service organizations (which I have belonged to or currently belong to several of these things) I can clearly distinguish between them and a fraternity such as Sigma Nu.

Sigma Nu calls upon its members to be first and foremost loyal to the brotherhood of Sigma Nu. Brothers are called upon to put their fraternity above ALL other associations and make it a life committment.

I may be going out on a limb here and it may be different for someone at another school but from what I've seen APO, CKI, SAI, etc do not ask this of their members.

APO asks its members to make a life time committement to service and APO. We take an oath of loyalty and service during our Induction as a Brother. We do not ask that people put APO before other associations or committements.

[S_A_I]

Ok, so I've been dying to reply to this topic for a loooong time! SAI, I believe (correct if I'm wrong, ladies), is registered with the government as a social fraternity for women, as well. Wouldn't we have to be? Maybe something came up on the listserve a while ago about this? Either way, we would have to be registered as "social" to be exempt from the fact that we do not allow men to join.

Originally posted by Mystic Cat32
Orchid2,
We are currently making advances at the National Level to become members of the NIC. Additionally, we're registered with the US Government as an official "Social" fraternity. We are not limited to music majors nor minors. We have brothers in all walks of life. Fraternally, Mystic Cat32

SAI also is not limited to music majors or minors. One of the qualifications to be a member is to have a "sincere interest in music." At one time, we had a sister in our chapter who used to play an instrument but at the collegiate level, was in colorguard. As far as all that goes, we only require that a person must have had one music class (band, history, etc.) to join.

My chapter (that I will be going back to in the spring!) does have big and little sisters. We wear letters on campus, we do service projects, we do fundraising projects, we have social events with Phi Mu Alpha . . . Just like with every GLO, our letters mean something. I guess you could also (kinda) categorize us with the men-folk in saying that we are like AGR or Farmhouse or even Phi Mu Alpha.

I do agree with sairose, though, when she said she felt like the other social glo's at her school do not feel SAI's are "really Greek." We do want to get involved on campus (at least my chapter does) and, for the most part, we do want the same type of recognition that social glo's get. Granted, there are some girls who say they join because "it's the non-sorority sorority." But we are still proud of our letters and proud of everything SAI stands for.

In saying all of this, I would like to add that I'm not trying to offend anyone or attack anyone. Three of my SAI sisters are in a social GLO. I, myself, was going to join a social GLO but there was a huge mix-up with my transfer status and, well, it just didn't work out. We love all of our sisters dearly ... may not always agree with them, but that's ok! ANYWAY!, please don't take offense to my post; those are just my feelings on SAI and that's all!

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by S_A_I
SAI, I believe (correct if I'm wrong, ladies), is registered with the government as a social fraternity for women, as well. Wouldn't we have to be? Maybe something came up on the listserve a while ago about this? Either way, we would have to be registered as "social" to be exempt from the fact that we do not allow men to join.

I'm not a member of SAI, but I am pretty sure it is a member of the Professional Fraternity Association. I am not sure if that is different than government recognition

http://www.profraternity.org/Members.asp?M=59

[arrowgirl]

Just going to put in my opinion.

I know that my school is probably a lot different from everyone else's, but... if you were to ask me to name the Greek Orgs on our campus, I would say: Beta, TKE, Fiji, Phi Delt, Snu, Pi Phi and Tri Delt. We have APO and SAI, but I don't consider them to be Greek, really. I think it is because I never hear about them actually doing anything. I know that they MUST do things, but if they do, they are the only ones who know about it. That sounds so awful to say... but it is all I can say, at least for my campus.

I do have to say, though, that I have a friend who goes to a different school who is in PMA Sinfonia, and he really likes it, and feels like it is the place for him. Of course, it's a much larger school, with a much larger Greek system. But I am glad that he was able to find his place, just like I was able to find mine in Pi Phi.

I think when it comes down to it, you shouldn't worry about whether you're "Greek" enough or not. As long as you found the place (or places, I suppose) that are right for you, then that should be enough.

[RedRoseSAI]

Originally posted by texas*princess


I'm not a member of SAI, but I am pretty sure it is a member of the Professional Fraternity Association. I am not sure if that is different than government recognition
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That's true, but S_A_I is correct in that we are registered with the IRS as a social organization.

[S_A_I]

Originally posted by texas*princess


I'm not a member of SAI, but I am pretty sure it is a member of the Professional Fraternity Association. I am not sure if that is different than government recognition

http://www.profraternity.org/Members.asp?M=59

You are right - SAI is a member of the Professional Fraternity Association. We are also a member of the National Interfraternity Music Council. However, Phi Mu Alpha is also a member of both orgs and they are social? Not trying to start an argument - I was just saying that for tax purposes, we are social. If we were registered with government as a professional, we would have to allow men to join. (I think!)

-Jessica

[sairose]

Originally posted by arrowgirl


I know that my school is probably a lot different from everyone else's, but... if you were to ask me to name the Greek Orgs on our campus, I would say: Beta, TKE, Fiji, Phi Delt, Snu, Pi Phi and Tri Delt. We have APO and SAI, but I don't consider them to be Greek, really. I think it is because I never hear about them actually doing anything. I know that they MUST do things, but if they do, they are the only ones who know about it. That sounds so awful to say... but it is all I can say, at least for my campus.

But think about one thing. Social GLOs usually have 50+ members. Groups like SAI average between 10-25 members, because since you have to have had at least one music class to pledge, this narrows down eligible girls. Out of all the eligible girls, only a certain number will have a desire to join a music GLO, and out of the ones interested, some will pledge other groups, since most schools have Tau Beta Sigma, Delta Omicron, or other similar groups. So, you end up with a continous small chapter.

Social GLOs are obviously more recognized because they are larger, and larger groups can do more. Also, larger groups are OBVIOUSLY going to be more well known around campus because there's 50+ people sporting letters as opposed to about 10 in SAI.

SAI does many things (at least my chapter does). We host socials, dances, parties, mingling activities, we help out the music department by ushering for recitals and the like.... but we ALSO do other kinds of service projects, like we are participating in the Up Til Dawn thing for St. Jude Hospital, which many groups around campus(mostly Greek) are participating in. In the past, we have participated in campus Talent Shows (we usually win too ) and things as well. We do a service project with the Girl Scouts, etc etc. So we DO do things, but the problem is, even though sometimes we do as much as social GLOS, since our membership is smaller, we aren't as well recognized...and aren't seen as Greek or "as Greek as social GLOs". Is this fair? No.

Am I making sense here? Anyone agree(or disagree)?

Curious to see you guys' thoughts on this.