If Hazing is Wrong, what's a better alternative?

[33girl]

OMG TEH GHOST GLO!!!!

FWIW, lack of on-campus housing and the general laid-backness of the Greek system makes membership in an underground group more palatable at SRU than it would be at, say, Penn State or Ole Miss. What I am trying to say is that you don't get a super ton more advantages for obeying the rules.

Doesn't make it right, but it's the way it is.

[Ivy173]

My sorority claims not to haze. It definitely does not do anything hardcore like beating up pledges or forced alcohol consumption, but the actives are encouraged to yell at the pledges throughout the initiation week, telling them they're the worst pledge class ever, we can't believe they made it this far, they embarass us, etc. Pledges have to wear different costumes throughout the week, meant to be embarassing, and they have to sing certain songs on demand. And thorughout the whole pledge period we had demerits and merits--we were told you would have to work off the demerits once you became a sister, and a lot of us got thousands of demerits from sisters when they were drunk. One girl in my class dropped based completely off how many demerits she got. We were warned working them off would be a pain, and she had over 50 000. We found out after we initiated they didn't mean anything.
I'm a pretty new sister and I really disagreed with the process, but we were told it was to show our determination and loyalty to our group. Although I do have a stronger bond with my class, I felt way more loyal to the sorority as a whole before the initiation week. I think hazing can bring the pledges together but causes division within the sorority. There are sisters my class absolutely hate and avoid as much as possible based on their behaviour during our initiation.

Originally Posted by Ivy173

My sorority claims not to haze. It definitely does not do anything hardcore like beating up pledges or forced alcohol consumption, but the actives are encouraged to yell at the pledges throughout the initiation week, telling them they're the worst pledge class ever, we can't believe they made it this far, they embarass us, etc. Pledges have to wear different costumes throughout the week, meant to be embarassing, and they have to sing certain songs on demand. And thorughout the whole pledge period we had demerits and merits--we were told you would have to work off the demerits once you became a sister, and a lot of us got thousands of demerits from sisters when they were drunk. One girl in my class dropped based completely off how many demerits she got. We were warned working them off would be a pain, and she had over 50 000. We found out after we initiated they didn't mean anything.
I'm a pretty new sister and I really disagreed with the process, but we were told it was to show our determination and loyalty to our group. Although I do have a stronger bond with my class, I felt way more loyal to the sorority as a whole before the initiation week. I think hazing can bring the pledges together but causes division within the sorority. There are sisters my class absolutely hate and avoid as much as possible based on their behaviour during our initiation.

And what organization calls you a member?

[Ivy173]

It's not national, and I'm not posting the name.

Originally Posted by Ivy173

It's not national, and I'm not posting the name.

That's what I don't get.

If you're so damn proud of how you guys bonded and that you feel more loyalty to your sorority, why be a wuss and not be proud to promote your organization?

[Ivy173]

Wait...What?
I said I felt more loyal to the group before initiation week. I feel like hazing didn't help us bond, except as a pledge class. And that just goes with the whole, we hated the actives together thing. It caused a seperation between the new class and the sisters. It's the only aspect of the group I strongly disagree with, and I would not have gone through the entire pledge process if I'd known what was awaiting me in the last week.

ETA: I'm not proud of the hazing thing, sorry if that wasn't clear before...I'm not trying to start a fight.

[agzg]

Live-in and I had a conversation last night when I mentioned that most first time posters on GC bump the hazing threads.

He said "I just don't get it. I mean, I'm not greek but I don't think I could be if a group of guys decided to tell me what to do at any point."

I gave him the eye. "You played club hockey in college. You can't tell me that you guys didn't haze."

He adamantly refused that allegation. I asked him if the new guys were encouraged or made to do something silly.

He smiled and said "Well the new guys drank out of a hockey skate at our parties."

GROSS! I told him that was hazing and he was adamant that he never drank out of it, and no one made them do it.

Anyway it turned into a long conversation about hazing and what it does, the psychological effects, and how even if someone isn't made to do something, or told that they won't be accepted by the group, a person can still feel like they should do something that they normally wouldn't in order to be accepted and it would still be hazing.

Regardless, this thread is completely nonsensical to me anymore so I thought I would share another completely nonsensical story about hazing.

Originally Posted by Ivy173

Wait...What?
I said I felt more loyal to the group before initiation week. I feel like hazing didn't help us bond, except as a pledge class. And that just goes with the whole, we hated the actives together thing. It caused a seperation between the new class and the sisters. It's the only aspect of the group I strongly disagree with, and I would not have gone through the entire pledge process if I'd known what was awaiting me in the last week.

ETA: I'm not proud of the hazing thing, sorry if that wasn't clear before...I'm not trying to start a fight.

Sorry Ivy173, I read you wrong.

The good thing is that you're not the only one who feels that hazing your pledges is not the way to do things. Hopefully one day you and your sisters can change the way things are done. Pledges may not have to go through physical abuse nor have to consume alcohol for now, but you never know what'll happen a few years from now. It only takes one person to screw it up for everyone.

[srmom]

agzg - I think it is a really common thing for sports teams to haze new members - probably more so (or at least as much) as fraternities.

Last year my son was a "rookie" on a college sports team. The rookies had to set up and take down practice equipment before every practice and do other jobs that are a pain in the butt. That would technically be considered hazing, but noone looked at it that way.

I don't think he had to drink anything out of a cleat though (that I know of)

[AlphaGamGirl13]

We did a 'search' sort of thing to find out who our bigs were.. we went from spot to spot around campus, and our bigs were at our last stop. Technically, we couldn't call that a scavenger hunt, because that would be considered hazing. I think things like that are a little excessive; all of the girls enjoyed the scavenger hunt a lot!
I think any sort of real 'hazing', such as intimidation or humiliation, or even yelling at pledges, is wrong. How can groups that pride themselves on sisterhood turn around and be so callous to their own sisters? I think that new member education programs are beneficial, but they need to be taught from the viewpoint of the necessity of knowing your organization's roots and traditions, not that you're just a crappy pledge and have to do all this work.
Just my view.. I'm glad my sisters don't support hazing at all, and if they did, I would have lost a LOT of respect for them.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamGirl13

We did a 'search' sort of thing to find out who our bigs were.. we went from spot to spot around campus, and our bigs were at our last stop. Technically, we couldn't call that a scavenger hunt, because that would be considered hazing. I think things like that are a little excessive; all of the girls enjoyed the scavenger hunt a lot!
I think any sort of real 'hazing', such as intimidation or humiliation, or even yelling at pledges, is wrong. How can groups that pride themselves on sisterhood turn around and be so callous to their own sisters? I think that new member education programs are beneficial, but they need to be taught from the viewpoint of the necessity of knowing your organization's roots and traditions, not that you're just a crappy pledge and have to do all this work.
Just my view.. I'm glad my sisters don't support hazing at all, and if they did, I would have lost a LOT of respect for them.

Scavenger hunts aren't allowed because they are always considered hazing, it falls under risk management, which includes our rules about activities, overnight trips, alcohol, hazing, and so on. A scavenger hunt could be used for hazing, but a bigger concern is related to insurance and risk management. For scavenger hunts people rush around and perhaps items are stolen or are inappropriate, and the concern is for safety. It is in effect because a woman could get in a car accident and file a claim against our Fraternity because she was trying to make it to the designated spot with her items at a chapter event, just as she could file a claim against the fraternity because a fire exit wasn't properly marked and she got burned in a fire.

If I remember right almost all groups have similar risk management policies due to our common insurance carrier and pooling risk.n If you're interested in Alpha Gam policies more information about this is in the Collegiate Leadership Manual.

[msl2008]

for all the people who say hazing doesn't happen much anymore...for some reason cornell writes up every incident on this website...i find it pretty interesting....

http://www.hazing.cornell.edu/incide...ngBlotter.html

that's a good amount of orgs on there...

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by msl2008

for all the people who say hazing doesn't happen much anymore...for some reason cornell writes up every incident on this website...i find it pretty interesting....

http://www.hazing.cornell.edu/incide...ngBlotter.html

that's a good amount of orgs on there...

Did anyone here say that it doesn't happen much anymore? If so, I definitely missed that.

[moe.ron]

Originally Posted by msl2008

for all the people who say hazing doesn't happen much anymore...for some reason cornell writes up every incident on this website...i find it pretty interesting....

http://www.hazing.cornell.edu/incide...ngBlotter.html

that's a good amount of orgs on there...

Huh?



Who said it doesn't happen much?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by moe.ron

Huh?



Who said it doesn't happen much?

Right. Probably no one. But hey, because it still happens fairly often, that's the perfect reason to do it. I know that I commit hate crimes, cheat on all my significant others, and steal money from my friends. It's no big deal, though.. a lot of other people do these things, too, so it makes it ok.