Observations

[DoggyStyle82]

Sorry about the long post. To answer your question, nothing can be done. New members are in the proverbial Catch 22. Intake programs are designed to meet the specifications of lawyers, banks and insurance companies. Intake has nothing to do with creating and fostering the fraternal spirit, training new members, nor indoctrinating them into the philosophy and purpose of the org. MIP is designed to gain membership in compliance with non-members guidelines. There used to be a distinct difference among the 4 sororities. Now they are indistinguishable. Now interests do research on the net, read In Search of Sisterhood, go to everyones rush, knows everyones call, party strolls, then decide on a sorority, 2 weeks later write a check and a weekend of MIP, voila!, you have an instant AKADSTZPBSGR. You might as well flip a coin. It is the pledge process (the indoctrination period) that differentiates the org. Without that, you basically have the same org, different colors.

[PositivelyAKA]

thanks DoggyStyle82 couldn't have said it better myself. peace.

[the411]

So, with that in mind, do you think it's possible for someone who wasn't pledged to pledge someone else? In other words, what about those chapters that are by-the-book (i.e. paper, cat, skaters, etc.) and ostracized by local collegiate chapters because of it? How can pledging become the new chapter trend if no one in the chapter has pledged? I know of chapters like this, but it's difficult to know whether or not someone who isn't a part of the chapter can step in to help out when the current chapter members are anti-pledging.



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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

[the411]

Another thought...

Reading back over PositivelyAKA's post, I thought of another question for you, Frat:

How do you feel about post-pledging those who came through the MIP? This happens in many chapters-- namely those known for being paper. Is post-pledging the answer?

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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

[DoggyStyle82]

411: you open another can of worms. Pledging is a carefully constructed process. It can easily degenerate into hazing in the wrong (untrained) hands. When you haven't ever been "on line" you don't know where to draw the line. A person who has never pledged, but then pledges someone else is probably doing it for the wrong reasons. The situation is most dangerous when a chapter loses its continuity. There is just too much danger with unpledged or half-pledged (only hazed) people overseeing a line.

[DoggyStyle82]

411: BTW, if you ain't never been in the cut, you should not ever swing, unless you are willing to take the some first.(speaking for myself only).

[DoggyStyle82]

411: I'll have to respond to your private e-mail. Look for it soon.

[PrettyKitty]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82:
Sorry about the long post. To answer your question, nothing can be done. New members are in the proverbial Catch 22. Intake programs are designed to meet the specifications of lawyers, banks and insurance companies. Intake has nothing to do with creating and fostering the fraternal spirit, training new members, nor indoctrinating them into the philosophy and purpose of the org. MIP is designed to gain membership in compliance with non-members guidelines. There used to be a distinct difference among the 4 sororities. Now they are indistinguishable. Now interests do research on the net, read In Search of Sisterhood, go to everyones rush, knows everyones call, party strolls, then decide on a sorority, 2 weeks later write a check and a weekend of MIP, voila!, you have an instant AKADSTZPBSGR. You might as well flip a coin. It is the pledge process (the indoctrination period) that differentiates the org. Without that, you basically have the same org, different colors.

I was just passing through and thought I would comment. What differences are you referring to? I am very curious to know what you are talking about.

As for pledging, it will never end. But in my opinion, people do crazier and more dangerous things now then they did then, because certain old heads can't let go of the process and keep making the younger greeks feel like they need to be "made right"
in order to get half the respect.

The powers that be have pushed membership intake on us and refuse to listen when we say that it's not working. They point to chapters that seem to have sucessful intake processes and say, see that's a good example of the validity of MIP...but in all actuality these same chapters are pledging underground.

I am not saying that I am for or against anything. But what I am saying is that a real solution must be met in order to correct the problem because the band-aid called MIP is not working.

I am proud to say I earned my letters, and can't a soul take that away from me!

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The Epitome of Beauty, Style, and Grace, Always Exemplifying Good Taste, A Zeta Woman, A Finer Woman, That's Me!

[Hudson]

I find your arguments to be interesting. AFter all the deaths, mamming, paralysis, broken bones, organs, etc., now you guys are reflecting on the RIGHT way to pledge. Where were you when things were getting out of hand? You know where you were? Right there in the middle of the madness! All you ole school Bruhs criticizing the new members who did MIP need to stop. Its ALL YOUR FAULT why pledging was banned. If yall was policing back then, then you would be pledging others, legally now. Don't blame the new people for something YOU CREATED. Enough is enough!!!!!

[DoggyStyle82]

HUDSON:

What is the source of your anger? This seems kind of personal to you,

I can truthfully say that I have never hurt, injured, emotionally wounded, nor scarred anyone under my jurisdiction. Despite what you may think that you know, there were relatively few deaths and maimings (1 is too many) relative to the number of succesful initiations.

Perception and perspective is the key.

[Hudson]

I just don't understand why you would insult the MIP Process and the new members who chose to be initiated through it only. It was the activities of the old school members why MIP is in place today.

[Cujo 87]

THe mip Procees in my opinion is part of the problem. The mip process encouraged and continues to encourage more underground pledging. The people who go through an underground process do not fully experience nor understand what a "old School" Process is about, it certainly is not about trying to hurt or injure someone but to form an eternal bond,if you can notunderstand this then maybe you too missed an important part of your process.

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Omega Psi Phi
Spr87 PM
Ace - Trinymphods

[DoggyStyle82]

CUJO87:

Team, is that Pi Mu at San Diego? Anyway, I see that we are in agreement.

Anyway, it was not Old School pledging that caused MIP. It was the result of new state laws as to what constituted hazing and certain specific HBCU's (most notably Morehouse) who had major incidents. Since the NHPC did not or could not reasonably argue the cultural significance and the necesssity of our traditions, traditional pledging was done away with altogether and replaced with intake.

I don't argue against Intake members, just the intake process.

[Hudson]

That may be true. But what was the nature or reason for the new state laws. How or why did they come about. Because of the things that got out of hand prior to 1990. I'm not arguing with the intentions and the value of pledging. I just find it that some greeks members are in denial of why the MIP Process came about. I think the MIP process is good thing because it forces those who chooses to participate in an underground process to be more careful. Ofcourse you still have those who don't give a f--k. They risk expulsion just they could beat people unconscious.

[DoggyStyle82]

I am still not sure where you are coming from or what you have experienced. The new state laws came about because of an advocacy group called "CHUCK". A white woman whose white son died pledging a white fraternity. He died from the result of a stupid drinking prank that is more typical of white frats than Black. The family could not press charges or have the perpetrators discipline by the school or the law. As a result of her advocacy, similar to MADD, many states adopted stricter anti-hazing laws, many of which made very innocuous activities to be considered hazing. None of these laws were as a result of any NPHC hazing incidents.