The conflict of Sudan: Uprooting the black Africans

[Rudey]

I understand that. I understand the fact that in general Americans are devoid of culture and roots. It's not completely a black thing. In Chicago you do see the Irish, but when you've got someone talking about how they are one part Irish, one part Fleming, one part milkman, and two parts Swedish...they are nothing and can only talk about their American roots...and even that barely. These people are plain old "White Americans".

Anyway, back to Africa. What was it that made the African American community act out about Apartheid but not slavery and ethnic cleansing? That is an explicit question that I am really interested in understanding.

-Rudey

Originally posted by Phasad1913
Don't buy it if you so wish, but I agree with Reds6. As a matter of fact, I was scrolling to the bottom of the screen to post a response saying pretty much what she said shen I saw her post.

It's pretty hard to explain, probably because the effects of history on Black Americans is not even quite thoroughly understood by many as it is, but I do have a sense of disconnect from the continent of Africa and although I do tend to pay more attention to the affairs of the region than I do to other parts of the world because of my heritage, I recognize that I don't have a whole lot in common with black africans other than our skin color. I am AMERICAN. I know a lot about what is going on and what has gone on in this country regarding black Americans. That is me. I know for a fact that there are plenty of black Americans who are very well versed in affairs of the African diaspora and the continent itself and I respect and appreciate their willingness to protest and fight for more adequate funding and attention to matters over there.

The best way I can explain my viewpoint is to say that black americans are basically a group in and of ourselves who function in America, obviously, because of our ancestors having been brought here, but not really integrated into mainstream american society for most of our history here. We also were taken from our homelands in Africa so long ago that our connection to the history, culture, etc. there has been distorted. This is why you hear about how black americans tend to be slightly less patriotic than other groups (in the sense that we often are mistrustful of the government's intern'l policies because we look at our history here and what is going on in other parts of the world where the population is heavily black and wonder how in the world "America" puts forth their ideals of freedom and equality when they've treated their own people so badly. So we have sort of deduced that we were never really considered American people) So it's sort of like, and again I am speaking more for myself because I am sure people have other views, we have been so busy fighting social battles right here for so long that we aren't as eager or able to fight the battles in other places. So while I do care deeply about what is going on in Africa, I feel that there are so many differences between my group here and the Africans there or the Sudanese, that I really can't feasibly see what to do...just like during our struggles here a few decades ago, there wasn't a huge outcry, I don't think, from African nations that really affected American policy.

I hopes thats clear, if not sorry. I can't explain it much better than that. Reds6, abaici, jump in if you want and fill in any gaps.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Phasad1913
Are YOU going to act?

Yes. I have and will continue to do so. The bare minimum I can do is try and get other people involved about it as well.

-Rudey

[Phasad1913]

Originally posted by Rudey
I understand that. I understand the fact that in general Americans are devoid of culture and roots. It's not completely a black thing. In Chicago you do see the Irish, but when you've got someone talking about how they are one part Irish, one part Fleming, one part milkman, and two parts Swedish...they are nothing and can only talk about their American roots...and even that barely. These people are plain old "White Americans".

Anyway, back to Africa. What was it that made the African American community act out about Apartheid but not slavery and ethnic cleansing? That is an explicit question that I am really interested in understanding.

-Rudey

From my understanding of what apartheid was, it was much more closely related to the racial oppression that black americans recieved during the pre-civil rights era/civil rights era and many more black americans who lived and suffered through that could relate to the plea of the black africans who suffered through apartheid so it was a more immediate outcry. Basically, there was more of an identification to this system then there was/is to the whole issue of slavery.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Phasad1913
From my understanding of what apartheid was, it was much more closely related to the racial oppression that black americans recieved during the pre-civil rights era/civil rights era and many more black americans who lived and suffered through that could relate to the plea of the black africans who suffered through apartheid so it was a more immediate outcry. Basically, there was more of an identification to this system then there was/is to the whole issue of slavery.

If that is the case and the African American community can't identify with slavery and its effects then I never ever want to hear a single word about reparations.

-Rudey

[Phasad1913]

Originally posted by Rudey
If that is the case and the African American community can't identify with slavery and its effects then I never ever want to hear a single word about reparations.

-Rudey

That's an entirely different discussion and don't exxaggerate what I said. I did not say black americans CANNOT identify with slavery. I am not going to get all of into the lasting effects and all that right now.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Phasad1913
That's an entirely different discussion and don't exxaggerate what I said. I did not say black americans CANNOT identify with slavery. I am not going to get all of into the lasting effects and all that right now.

So what about that whole trend with people wearing things with Africa maps? Those people who are all Africa this, and Africa that and I wear these colors for the blood and yada yada...are they not walkers but talkers?

-Rudey

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by ktsnake
It has to do with post-WWII Soviet occupation. 50 years of Communist imperial rule will have an effect on your culture.

I would have to say it was before WWII, even. Some of the strictest WWI-era immigration controls were placed on Eastern Europeans for several reasons, and since most of Eastern Europe didn't go Communist until after WWII, I'm going to take a gander and say that there has been pro-Western European sentiment since before WWII.

But, what do I know?

[Phasad1913]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...udan_powell_dc

Well, this may be the spotlight that this situation so badly needed.

Go Colon!

[PhiPsiRuss]

They covered dafur tonight on the Newshour on PBS. A guy said that they need to get humanitarian aid in, or a few hundred thousand people will die by the fall. They can't get the humanitarian aid in because the Arab militias won't let it in.

[Rudey]

So far, the United States and the world have done precious little in response. The Bush administration fears that, if it alienates the Khartoum government over Darfur, it will undermine one of its signature African achievements--the potential end to the 21-year civil war in southern Sudan. China and France have resisted a U.N. Security Council resolution demanding that Khartoum halt the violence and allow immediate humanitarian access because they have oil investments in Sudan. Russia and rotating Security Council member Pakistan, both of which are combating insurgencies, object that a resolution would infringe on Sudan's sovereignty. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan last week agreed to visit Darfur soon but made no further commitment.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040...ditorial070504

-Rudey

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Rudey
So far, the United States and the world have done precious little in response. The Bush administration fears that, if it alienates the Khartoum government over Darfur, it will undermine one of its signature African achievements--the potential end to the 21-year civil war in southern Sudan. China and France have resisted a U.N. Security Council resolution demanding that Khartoum halt the violence and allow immediate humanitarian access because they have oil investments in Sudan. Russia and rotating Security Council member Pakistan, both of which are combating insurgencies, object that a resolution would infringe on Sudan's sovereignty. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan last week agreed to visit Darfur soon but made no further commitment.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040...ditorial070504

-Rudey

The UN = worthless.

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by ktsnake
The UN = worthless.

Which UN?

[Kevin]

Originally posted by moe.ron
Which UN?

Good point.

Well, the UN Security Council has time and again proven themselves to be ineffective when dealing with things like this. The inaction by certain members on this is offensive. In my opinion, they are just as culpable as those who are actually ordering the removal of these people from their homes.

Here's something that sounds a little like what we had in Iraq:
"China and France have resisted a U.N. Security Council resolution demanding that Khartoum halt the violence and allow immediate humanitarian access because they have oil investments in Sudan."

China, France, Russia, Pakistan, and the U.S. are about to have the blood of a lot of innocent people on their hands.

[moe.ron]

The talkshop in New York have always frustrated me and other UN workers who are in the ground. I know the guy who is trying hard to get the UN HQ to say something about Sudan. He said that the HQ kept on getting blocked by other nations. In essence, the weakist link are the State members.

The specialized agencies (WFP, UNICEF, UNDP) have been calling for more access and more aids from countries. So far, that calls has been ignored by most. Even been silenced. Like my previous post, this problem could escalate into the next Rwanda, and it still can.

ETA: Here is a very depressing statistic when it come to funding in Sudan.

The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) said only 31 per cent - or about $78 million - of the $250 million needed by UN agencies to help people in Darfur has been received so far.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by Rudey
What was it that made the African American community act out about Apartheid but not slavery and ethnic cleansing? That is an explicit question that I am really interested in understanding.

-Rudey

As far as apartheid and the African American reaction, what I witnessed was "right place, right time" issues... Several African Americans started to realize something about themselves at that time and when they discovered they were "black" (in so many words--'cuz there are a lot other descriptions I could use), AND they found out what was going on in the South Africa and what the government was sanctioning, there was an outcry among the educated... That is one viewpoint I could give you.

Who knows? It could have been the decline of communism at the time. And while there was "pull out" of the communist regimes from the Soviet Union in Africa, then an increased interests of capitalism from western European countries--leading eventually United States--the atrocities that were going on in this "alleged democratic government" in South Africa was a quandry for many fortune 500 companies investing there... So when divesture was demanded, especially by South Africans that lived in other countries, i.e. in England and France, the voices got heard??? Maybe that is how the US African Americans got involved? I dunno?

As far as Sudanese Ethnic Cleansing and piss poor outcry from African Americans is because some folks just are tired of fighting other folks battles.

Basically, the African Intelligenesia just do not give a hoot about them "thin assed" black folks waay ova dere...

You could say, "capitalism at its best!" and go from there...

Then there are many an American that are a shade or two darker in complexion and it is well known that their ancestors did come from the Continent of African 200-500 years ago, that are really not called "African" in the truest of sense because they have lost their DAYUM mind... They could care less about another, much less you and me put together...

Some of "us" call the culturally ignorant, "negroes"... I am not talking about the illiterate--I am talking skrait out IG-NANT!!!

They make much money, only to put it on their "hoopt-dees" big "twanky twos" spinner rims... Negros, I tell yah... Racist white folks use derogotory expletives when describing these individuals...

And somehow, we all get lumped together into one group--just like at the bottom of the slave ship--the Intelligenesia, The sellouts, the IG-NANT--all of their anscentors from various African countries--narrowed down to a few changes in amino acid sequences--that are really not that much different than most of the "brightest" Europeans... But, well...

It makes you wonder, hmmmm???

Anyhow, you need to read about Nkrumah and Jomo Kenyatta and what they did when they found out what MLK was doing during the start of Civil Rights... Then you will discover why many African Americans--the ones who do know--are reticent about speaking out against these atrocities when you realize what the Untied States did to folks like that... Look at what Kwame Ture had to do as well as W.E.B. DuBois... And why Marcus Garvey did what he did so long ago--WEB fought tooth and nail with Marcus until WEB visited Ghana--in the early 1900's... Hmmmm???