Hazing is wrong......That's why WE don't do it!!!!! - Page 5

Peaches-n-Cream · #61 06-06-2003, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PsiU1833
Well that girl showed no loyalty to her pledge class when she abandoned them. If that girl abandoned her pledge class when times were tough, whos to say she wont abandon her sorority.

It wasn't an issue of loyalty. It was the first Saturday after bids and induction. She had only been pledging for a few days. The sisters and pledges barely knew each others names. She decided that if this is how pledging began, it could only get worse from there. She was right. I don't want to go into specific details about what exactly happened, but it was hazing by every definition. She was surprised that she was the only one who left.

Times were tough because the sorority sisters decided to haze, not because of external facts such as financial problems or illness.

Ditto to what texas*princess wrote.

astroAPhi · #62 06-09-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cream
Some alumni actually experienced many of the things that would be defined as hazing in 2003. Does that mean they don't have dignity and self-respect? I don't think so. I have mentioned a friend who got up and left another NPC sorority that she was pledging when they hazed her. I think that she would have been a good sister. The pledges who stayed and experienced hazing also became good sisters. Some hazing was nonsense, some was a pain in the neck, and some was downright dangerous. I am not defending hazing by any means. I agree with shadokat's previous posts on the subject in this thread. I just disagree with describing people who have been hazed as lacking self-respect and dignity.

I'm not talking the little crap like no more "scavenger hunts" and events along those lines. Hazing means that you are uncomfortable, endangered or feel demeaned by a situation. If your friend left because she felt that way, good for her. If the other pledges didn't feel that way, good for them. If they did feel that way and didn't speak up, that's their fault.

Tom Earp · #63 06-09-2003, 09:50 PM

I never understood how you can haze (Brow Beat ) people into submission to come to love their Pledge Class, the Active Chapter or, The Greek Org. that they thought that they wanted to be a member of!

Damn, I wish I had joined a Greek Org. where I could get my ass beat with a board, have sh*t poured on me, made to do things that I might injure myself, and drink till I was comotose!

That is the way to build Brother/Sisterhood!

shadokat · #64 06-10-2003, 10:05 AM

PsiU, when, may I ask, did you go through your new member program? In case you hadn't noticed, the calendar reads 2003 anymore, and while ideas like these may have worked in the 70s, now, they just aren't going to hold much credibility.

Quote:

Originally posted by PsiU1833
Well that girl showed no loyalty to her pledge class when she abandoned them. If that girl abandoned her pledge class when times were tough, whos to say she wont abandon her sorority.

PsiU1833 · #65 06-11-2003, 01:30 AM

Fall 2000 and I believe hazing does work, and im not talking about beating people with paddles or putting themselves into situations where they can die or be seriously injured. Pledges (yes my school still uses term pledges, pledge term , and rush), should have to earn the right to wear those letter and be called brothers. If it takes yelling then so be it. When a person accepts their bid and becomes a member thats just dumb, might as well join a co-op. My friend was part of a house that did that and also didnt haze, at the end of the semister after they lost half their pledge class , they asked to be hazed so that being in a house would mean something to them. Another thing the 3 top houses are also the 3 hardest hazing ones on campus and last time i checked it wasnt the 70's so somethings got to be working.
Also alumni come back and we tell each other stories and not alot has changed, and yes my chapter was considered old back in the 70's, before when hazing was "mainstream" in the greek system.

shadokat · #66 06-13-2003, 10:26 AM

PsiU, my point, and others here I'm sure will agree, is that hazing may work for you at your chapter, for whatever reason, but there are MANY successful chapters just like yours that don't haze, and it is entirely possible to have a positive experience and still show dedication to your organization in many ways.

One other questions...if you have to yell at your new members to get them to do the activities required, why would you want them there?

PsiU1833 · #67 06-13-2003, 10:42 AM

You yell at them if they dont know something or do something wrong, like y dont you know this or is this not important to you something to that effect. The chapters that i know dont haze all have serious internal problems, while the chapters that do haze have a stronger brotherhood, i guess its differnt at you campus but whatever u have ur opinion and i have mine and we are not going to change each others.

texas*princess · #68 06-13-2003, 10:53 AM

Like Cream said, that's great what works for your chapter, but I wouldn't exactly call your theory a scientific discovery.

You say the chapters you have seen that don't haze have internal problems and you have a stronger brotherhood. Could it be something else that causes a stronger brotherhood for you? Or maybe something else that causes their internal problems? Maybe they have severe personality differences and just don't get along...or something else.. unless of course if they just walked up to you and said "We don't haze that's why we have internal problems." Something else you could take into consideration is the number of other chapters you've seen, and the number of chapters that are actually out there that you haven't. How would you really know "hazing works" if you haven't checked out every other chapter out there?

I know this sounds crazy and overly statistical, but I don't think you can say that every chapter that doesn't haze has poor brotherhood and/or problem. In reality, I don't think any GLO has "perfect harmony"... whether it be sororities, fraternities, or even professional GLO's. Everyone has some kind of issue whether it be small or large, and I don't think it's possible to attibute problems to the differences in whether or not they haze.

PsiU1833 · #69 06-13-2003, 03:43 PM

there are no absolutes and i didnt say that every chapter that doesnt haze has problems just the ones i know and thats only like 3 of them, also the really succeful chapters i know of haze, it doesnt mean that all good chapters haze, but the way people make hazing out to be on this thread and in general its like ur commiting the ultimate sin and ur chapter should be closed down or something like that.

kddani · #70 06-13-2003, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PsiU1833
but the way people make hazing out to be on this thread and in general its like ur commiting the ultimate sin and ur chapter should be closed down or something like that.

Hazing IS the ultimate sin in greek life.

GC has taught a lot of us here the bigger world of greek life. We have an overwhelming amount of information given to us on this site by our peers.

In the greek world, hazing IS pretty much the ultimate sin. It's something that's given us all a bad rap, regardless of whether or not we or our individuals chapters haze or hazed. It's a stereotype that we have to fight everyday as Greeks.

If a chapter is hazing, they SHOULD be shut down. Or at the very least the offending individuals should be resigned and the chapter put on probation.

Please forgive me for not knowing more about you, but judging from your screenname i'm guessing that you're not a member of a national fraternity? You likely don't have any rules or guidelines to follow like NPC sororities, NIC fraternities, etc. Those rules we're created just for kicks. There are also state and local laws regarding hazing, and i'm betting your school has some regulations as well.

The thing about hazing, too, is that you can't just say, oh, we're going to just limit it to yelling at them, etc. If you allow anything at all, there's always going to be someone pushing for more, and it escalates further and further.

sugar and spice · #71 06-13-2003, 06:27 PM

Actually, kddani, Psi Upsilon is a national fraternity. But I agree with everything else you said.

We, as Greeks, need to start being responsible. And when we haze, we are putting our members at risk for injury and putting our HQ (and sometimes individual members too) at risk for a lawsuit. Psi U has less than 30 active chapters -- that means not a lot of money is coming in, and if there isn't a lot of money, one lawsuit could easily wipe out the entire organization. Even if you're not "hurting" your pledges, an overly rigorous pledge program causes grades to go down, involvement outside of the fraternity to suffer, and friendships outside of the fraternity to suffer. Those are all missed chances to capitalize on showing people what the Greek system is really supposed to be about. Brotherhood and sisterhood are important, but not at the expense of everything else.

kddani · #72 06-13-2003, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Actually, kddani, Psi Upsilon is a national fraternity. But I agree with everything else you said.
else.

My bad! Didn't realize that.

I wonder what Psi Upsilon nationals would have to say about this then?

kddani · #73 06-13-2003, 06:37 PM

I was at work earlier, and really wasn't able to do proper research.
However, I did find Psi U's policy on hazing. The pretty standard policy:

Hazing
No chapter, colony, student or alumnus shall conduct nor condone hazing activities. Hazing activities are defined as:

"Any action taken or situation created, intentionally, whether on or off fraternity premises, to produce mental or physical discomfort, embarrassment, harassment, or ridicule. Such activities may include but are not limited to the following: use of alcohol; paddling in any form; creation of excessive fatigue; physical and psychological shocks; quests, treasure hunts, scavenger hunts, road trips or any other such activities carried on outside or inside of the confines of the chapter house; wearing of public apparel which is conspicuous and not normally in good taste; engaging in public stunts and buffoonery; morally degrading or humiliating games and activities; and any other activities which are not consistent with academic achievement, fraternal law, ritual, or policy, or the regulations and policies of the educational institution or applicable state law."

shadokat · #74 06-17-2003, 12:14 PM

Ultimate sin? I wouldn't go quite that far, but I would tell you that let Psi Upsilon get sued by a brother and his parents and a university and you may no longer have a fraternity. Ultimate demise seems more fitting. Your chapter should be closed down, not only because of hazing, but because of the liability you incur for the entire fraternity by hazing.

Quote:

Originally posted by PsiU1833
there are no absolutes and i didnt say that every chapter that doesnt haze has problems just the ones i know and thats only like 3 of them, also the really succeful chapters i know of haze, it doesnt mean that all good chapters haze, but the way people make hazing out to be on this thread and in general its like ur commiting the ultimate sin and ur chapter should be closed down or something like that.

SuperSister · #75 06-17-2003, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PsiU1833
they asked to be hazed so that being in a house would mean something to them.

No one can MAKE something mean something to you. Something has meaning because YOU believe it to have meaning. Somebody could attempt to haze me into believing that the Lord's Prayer (sorry if the analogy offends!) should mean something but it won't truly hold meaning unless I want it to.