Tight Curls or Silky Straight???

[serenity_24]

DST Love,

Very well put.
I really appreciate your honesty.

[Poplife]

Originally posted by allsmiles_22:
Like AKA2D'91 said "THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS GOING ON IN THIS WORLD". One cannot sit around and weigh the slavery affects of whether to perm or not to perm-that's a waste of time. We as black people got too much going on in life-THE HERE AND THE NOW-to worry about that.

If you want examples- our current political situation, the AIDS crisis in Africa, the rise of AIDS among your black women, the poverty in our black communities, the health problems of the black population, etc. These are some real issues that we need to address because this "bad white world" isn't.

We need to focus on the BIGGER, SERIOUS and more SUBSTANTIAL problems rather than the insignificant ones. Once we have established our position in society, then we can focus on how we look in it.

Smiles, I think you totally missed the point. How in the world can you say we can't worry about the "Bad White World" right now?? Are you living in the same WHITE MAN'S country I am? The Land of glass ceilings, hate crimes, and subtle bigotry? I already said that it's not all about to perm or not to perm. It's about how we as a people are STILL affected by things that went on hundreds of years ago.

Our history and our heritage have a direct impact on the lives we lead in the United States today. How is any discussion about our past insignificant? If we are still messed up by the Willie Lynches of the past how are we going to truly be the leaders of the future?

You should realize that talking about things like color complexes, the allure of straight hair, black love/black hate, interracial dating, bi racial children and the like does help us to establish our position in society. You can’t really know where you are standing until you look back to where you have been.

Besides you can see from some of these topics that many people can't accept some "small" parts of our history. How well do you think they are going to hold up to the "SUBSTANTIAL" things??


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"If you believe you hold the truth in your hand, how will you know it when it comes to your door?"


[This message has been edited by Poplife (edited January 26, 2001).]

[serenity_24]

Originally posted by allsmiles_22:
Like AKA2D'91 said "THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS GOING ON IN THIS WORLD". One cannot sit around and weigh the slavery affects of whether to perm or not to perm-that's a waste of time. We as black people got too much going on in life-THE HERE AND THE NOW-to worry about that.

If you want examples- our current political situation, the AIDS crisis in Africa, the rise of AIDS among your black women, the poverty in our black communities, the health problems of the black population, etc. These are some real issues that we need to address because this "bad white world" isn't.

We need to focus on the BIGGER, SERIOUS and more SUBSTANTIAL problems rather than the insignificant ones. Once we have established our position in society, then we can focus on how we look in it.

My solution: We all just need to put our relaxed or permed heads together and find way to combat the pertinent problems at hand.

It's not about how we LOOK, it's about what we THINK of ourselves as African-Americans.

If you never uderstand the past how can you begin to know the reasons why things happen in the presemt or how to deal with them in the future? That is the very reason there is a thread going about Sell Outs. It's the same issue: How you feel about being black.

Think about this: The thread about Babyface was a big topic. It was mentioned that the rest of the world doesn't want to look at dark skinned women with short hair on TV. How can a person that cant stand the look of themselves in a natural state (without makeup and no perm) fight for the cause to get more shows on TV that represent the full spectrum of African Americans? I would think that that person would be indiferent if not opposed to the cause. To them it would be such a small issue. (remember I am not speaking of anyone in particular)

It's also amazing to me to think that we proclaim to be educated and cant do more than one task at a time. I feel we can have as many discussions as we want, that doesn't mean we are not in our communities actually addressing some of the "Bigger Issues".

[Discogoddess]

For those who believe the "green film/slime" theory, where might I find some information that supports this? I'm curious, especially since several people stated earlier in the discussion that no research/testing on the long-term effects of relaxers had been done. Any medical doctors or better yet, coroners who have seen this phenomenon in the house (or can someone point me to one)?

I'm looking for serious leads only. No super C-O-Nspiracy theories, please.

[Poplife]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
For those who believe the "green film/slime" theory, where might I find some information that supports this? I'm curious, especially since several people stated earlier in the discussion that no research/testing on the long-term effects of relaxers had been done. Any medical doctors or better yet, coroners who have seen this phenomenon in the house (or can someone point me to one)?

You know DG, I would like some hard documentation too. I bet there have been some studies done, but since perms/relaxers are such money makers the people in charge are not going to readily release this information. Besides what I can gather from listening to the news and reading general health reports, I never hear anything about the hazards that are rumored to occur.

I'm still looking for pictures, interviews, books, and articles to support the rumors.
If I find something I'll be sure to post it.

[1 Woman of Virtue]

Originally posted by allsmiles_22:
Like AKA2D'91 said "THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS GOING ON IN THIS WORLD". One cannot sit around and weigh the slavery affects of whether to perm or not to perm-that's a waste of time. We as black people got too much going on in life-THE HERE AND THE NOW-to worry about that.

If you want examples- our current political situation, the AIDS crisis in Africa, the rise of AIDS among your black women, the poverty in our black communities, the health problems of the black population, etc. These are some real issues that we need to address because this "bad white world" isn't.


My solution: We all just need to put our relaxed or permed heads together and find way to combat the pertinent problems at hand.

My mentor at the firm I work w/ (she is one of 3 Black women, out of 70 attorneys--only 2 Black men...I am the only Black intern out of 110...This is supposed to be an affirmative action program--just some background for ya) recently gave me an article that she had to read when in law school 2 years ago. The article, taken from Duke Law Journal (I'll have to post the year and edition tomorrow, I left it at home) discussed the legal fights that Black women are going through. The issue at hand? The appropriateness, or the lack thereof, of Black hairstyles.
The article came w/ pictures and everything.Now I'm not talking about hair dyed red, black, and green--I'm talking about braids, weaves (nicely done-there is a difference), short/long perms, naturals, etc. The article discusses the many court cases in which Black women have had to alter their hair styles if they wanted to keep their job. In one instance, it was not found illegal for an employer to fire an employee because she had braids in. This ruling essentially set a legal precedent, dictating to Black women how they could wear their hair in the work place. To date, there has been no high court ruling to say otherwise. What does this mean? Your boss, can tell you how to do your 'do. That, is a pertinent issue...(God forbid they say perms aren't "Professional looking" Admittedly, these women were working in non-white collar positions, which means they were working class. Now for those of us who have been so fortunate to have a lucrative position that allows us some semblance of freedom to wear our hair natural may not have it this bad. But the fact is that Black women, have been told BY THE LAW that their hair can be regulated by the government. What is the point? Well I think this would qualify as one of those "BIGGER, SERIOUS and more SUBSTANTIAL problems rather than the insignificant ones" that we need to focus on.

"Once we have established our position in society, then we can focus on how we look in it." Are we really so naive as to believe this? Ladies, (and Men) the legistlative branch of the GOVERNMENT, has upheld that Black women's hair can be dictated, and regulated. Essentially taking a piece of our body, isolating it from who we are as a people, and telling us what to do w/ it. Now if that doesn't sound like the master tippin' into the slave woman's hut, then I don't know what does.
And that IS something that needs to be focused on. Why make the subject of hair a taboo one, just because we tire of the issue? God forbid we tire of talking about some of the other issues we face like sexism in the Black community (or, should I say "start" talking about it...just a thought ). I fear the day that we stop talking about reparations, just because some of us have made it to the elite class, and don't want to be in the tax bracket of those who have to foot the bill; please don't let us stop talking about any of these issues.
The moment we do--Willie Lynch has won.
Who better, and what better time, than now for permed heads and natural heads to discuss this? Yes we need to keep talking about some other stuff too, like the fact that Pres Bush-it has cut funding for planned parenthood education to poor countries, The sexism in our community, the growing number of Black poor, even something as funny as "Ghetto Weddings" . But just because the issue is uncomfortable, does not mean it is not worthwhile.

[Poplife]

Originally posted by 1 Woman of Virtue:
God forbid they say perms aren't "Professional looking"

Oh Gosh, Virtue...let's not talk about professionalism PUH-LEEZ.

If ONE more woman tells me I should press my hair for rush I will scream. I could see if I was hitting the Macy Gray or some other "wild" look, but dag.




[This message has been edited by Poplife (edited January 29, 2001).]

[CrimsonTide4]

Hi Ladies,
It is interesting that this convo is taking place becasue last week I saw on Amazon a new book that I received the other day called NAPPILY EVER AFTER . I started reading it last night after I finished Terry Mc's book. So far it is kind of slow but I wanted to share it with you all just to see if anyone has read it or put it out there for you all to read. Here is the SUMMARY from AMAZON:

Book Description
What happens when you toss tradition out the window and really start living for yourself?

Venus Johnston has a great job, a beautiful home, and a loving live-in boyfriend named Clint, who happens to be a drop-dead gorgeous doctor. She has a weekly beauty-parlor date with Tina, who keeps Venus's long, processed hair slick and straight. Ever since childhood, the tedious hours in the salon and the harsh, burning chemicals have grated on Venus, and increasingly she dreams of cutting off her beautiful "good" hair. When her boyfriend keeps balking at commitment, and the thought of another hour at the salon is just too much, Venus decides to give it up -- all of it. She trades in the long hair for a dramatically short, natural cut and sends Clint packing. It's a bold declaration of independence -- and one that has effects she never could have imagined. Reactions from friends and coworkers range from concern to contempt to outright condemnation. When Clint moves on and starts dating a voluptuous, long-haired beauty, Venus is forced to question what she really wants out of life. With wit, resilience, and a lot of determination, she finally learns what true happiness is . . . on her own terms.



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Black is a mystery, and part of my history. Black is bold and worth a hell of a lot more than gold.

[allsmiles_22]

There is no ONE POINT in life- Poplife. You have yours and I have mine and it seems that a couple of people missed mine and decided to stress a less important sentence in my original post rather than the more important overall idea. I don't recall saying "ignore what happened in the past" or not worry about the "bad white world". If that was what you got re-read my post, do some critical thinking and then reply with a more thought out response.

Poplife:
"You should realize that talking about things like color complexes, the allure of straight hair, black love/black hate, interracial dating, bi racial children and the like does help us to establish our position in society. You can’t really know where you are standing until you look back to where you have been."

How do those issues tackle these SERIOUS issues: the AIDS crisis in Africa-in a few years more than half of the entire population will be infected, the rise of AIDS among young black women in America-eventually leading to the decline of the population, the poverty in our black communities, the health problems of the black population?

I can't be worried about whether my hair is natural or not, why the black guy is walking down the street with a white woman, or why my girl is black, indian, and chinese when there are africans still enslaved in Sudan in the year 2001. I can't worry about that when the young girl that I mentor has HIV. I can't worry about that when there are black people with no health insurance and can't get the medical attention that they need.

Serenity_24:
If one is in touch with their blackness and are doing things pertaining to that, then why should it matter to them who is a sell-out? If others aren't doing what they need to be doing for their community, then you as an individual step up to the plate. I can't be worried about what others are not doing, I can only worry about what I am doing and not be a sell-out.

"I feel we can have as many discussions as we want, that doesn't mean we are not in our communities actually addressing some of the "Bigger Issues"."

That's true, but the majority speak about it, but won't be about it.

1 Woman of Virtue:
I see in your post you refer to how the law is limiting us as black people. Well what are we doing to prevent this- besides going to court to fight for our rights? The majority of black people are apathetic when it comes to voting. All the hype comes when it's a Presidential election, but what about the smaller elections? Most people don't even know who their govenor or senator is and don't care. However, it's our influence that get's the right people into office to make the decisions for and by the people. Moreover, how many of us or the next generation aspire to be a politican to change the current state of affairs? Not many. Being PROACTIVE rather than REACTIVE is more efficient in the long run.

Pardon me if I don't exhibit my blackness by being aware of some of these "superficial issues" in society (in my opinion). It's clear to see that others will worry about them for me. I'll be demostrating my blackness by being proactive about more important and serious issues (in my opinion).

Lastly, I don't recall, so therefore I didn't say this issue wasn't worthwhile. It's just been talked about SO MUCH ON THIS BOARD and in almost EVERY OTHER POST that it needs a rest. One can only say the same thing so many times before people become tired of hearing it.

[AKA2D '91]

[quote]Originally posted by AKA2D '91:

NEXT THREAD, PUHHHLLLLLEEEZZZZEE!

LOL

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91:
LOL

THE END!