NPC appoints Community College Task Force

[carnation]

I loathe the words diversity and inclusion because they are so vague.

No one I know really cares if their NPC group admits a non-white woman. You know what? I went to an SEC school in the seventies and no one in my group would have cared then.

But NPC seems on a mission to destroy their groups. They don't want us to use recs. They seem to want us to just give up and pledge anyone who walks in the door. Recs introduce us to women we don't know and they also warn us about women we reaaaally shouldn't pledge. Let's say we pledge a couple of people we like during recruitment (no background information on them bc no recs) and it turns out that they pull trains. In their letters. Or they make racist or hazing videos. In their letters. Women like this have cost chapters their charters, and the forementioned examples have actually happened several times.

Should we be forced to take anyone? Do football teams have to let anyone walk on and play? Must Phi Beta Kappa have minimum GPAs for induction? Should dues for all organizations be outlawed, or should current members be made to pay dues for people who can't?

Think of what you really want when you're discussing diversity and inclusion.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

To your first point: It's not just about who should be allowed to participate as a sorority member. A college student has to earn the right to join, and then participate in, a sorority by performing and maintaining simple standards of education and conduct.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Honest question: are you serious?

How many members do you think we have join our organizations after a few surface-level conversations, followed by weeks of showering them with love and gifts? What did they "earn" in that regard? Why couldn't a community college student "earn" membership in the same way? Are you suggesting community college students can't maintain education and conduct standards?

Also, sorority membership isn't a "right," and if it was, you wouldn't need to earn it at all.

Fair enough. Use the word 'privilege' instead of the word 'right'. A student earns the privilege of joining, and participating in, a sorority by meeting her chapter's specific membership selection criteria.

Nowhere do I state CC students can't maintain education and conduct standards.

But in deciding whether to allow the privilege of membership to CC students via CC chapters, are we looking for sisters to whom we can give quality experiences?

Or do we tip the scales toward quantity in number of chapters, quantity in number of sisters, and quantity of dues fees paid?

Say the NPC allows its groups to form chapters at CCs. It's been previously mentioned by others on greekchat that if an NPC sorority wants to initiate women attending a CC they'd best be prepared for the inevitablities of:

women choosing to attend a 4 year school, after their CC, that doesn't have their NPC group on campus and thus they decide to drop from the sorority;

women whose 4 year college HAS their NPC chapter, but said chapter has the right to refuse any transferring sister (from either a CC or a 4 year school) from full membership participation.

Somehow those inevitabilities, and others unmentioned, don't add up to a quality sorority experience most women want and deserve.

Additionally, some NPC groups may prefer maintaining a quality of membership that, even if they are allowed, will never include having chapters at a CC. What impression of NPC sororities does that give to a CC student desiring NPC sorority membership?

[naraht]

Given the fact that some of the NPC sororities had a major part of their early growth at two year schools, does this effort open some of those early chapters back up, or are those types of two year schools (mostly women's only finishing schools) long gone, leaving the public community colleges as the two year schools that could extend to?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by naraht

Given the fact that some of the NPC sororities had a major part of their early growth at two year schools, does this effort open some of those early chapters back up, or are those types of two year schools (mostly women's only finishing schools) long gone, leaving the public community colleges as the two year schools that could extend to?

I think those kinds of schools are pretty much long gone. It’s part of why ASA had to reorganize in 1914, because our chapter roll consisted almost completely of those type of schools and an anti-sorority sentiment was sweeping through them.

I’m not quite sure why this thread has taken the turn it has - I thought the primary argument against CC expansion was (and still is) the amount of turnover. It’s hard to run a GLO when the majority or all of students only stay at the school one or two years. It’s not because CCs are for The Poors.

[andthen]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I thought the primary argument against CC expansion was (and still is) the amount of turnover. It’s hard to run a GLO when the majority or all of students only stay at the school one or two years. It’s not because CCs are for The Poors.

This!! I know at least where I live and spent a semester at CC for a lot of people its either a path into a 4 year school after they've finished a year or two. For me it was a transitional point before I re-enrolled at a different 4 year university than where I first started.

I know for my cousin who is currently enrolled in CC he relocated from out of state, and wanted to establish his residency in the state with the goal of going to a 4 year university. Going to CC was a much more financially viable option for him as he has to pay for school himself. He figures get his gen ed classes done there and then take his core classes for his major at State U, and hopefully doesn't have as much debt when he graduates. For my niece who started at a 4 year school and I even wrote her a rec (when those were a thing), some events made her return to live with her grandmother, she finished out and got a two year degree from the local CC and then transferred back to a local 4 year university to get her bachelors.

I think for others doing CC they might be older students finally deciding to go back to school and CC is a good option for them to work and go to school.

Although there might be a decline in students interested in participating in greek life, I don't feel like exploring membership options at the CC level is the best long term solution. To me most CC's cater to commuter students at least all of the CC's I'm aware of in the general vicinity of where I live all have commuter students who are likely working full or part-time jobs, so then asking these students to say hey you want to join "ABC Sorority", I have a feeling this path is going to lead no where.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by NoID

My $0.02.

"Diversity" in NPC organizations is purely racial.

I see no great effort to seek out those who are physically disabled in some way - deaf, blind, mobility-challenged, etc. Nor to seek out those from other religious cultures, unless they can be differentiated by skin color as well.

The CPC sends out info to freshmen women, and has websites the PNM can join to receive information and updates. In NPC formal recruitment, the interested potential new member is the one to take the initiative, and sign up to participate in recruitment. The exception to this would be during COB when a sorority member might encourage a friend, roommate, classmate, whom she knows well, to participate in COB activities, although PNMs interested to participate in COB do reach out on their own to CPCs.

I have known Collegiate panhellenics to make every effort to accommodate PNMs with a special need, so that that PNM could fully participate in rush. I have known of sororities who made accommodations for sisters with a special need. I had a deaf chapter sister when I was in college during the Dark Ages. She fully participated in all our rituals and activities, including rush, and was a valued member of the chapter. The bottom line is, SHE took the initiative, and signed up for rush.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

The CPC sends out info to freshmen women, and has websites the PNM can join to receive information and updates. In NPC formal recruitment, the interested potential new member is the one to take the initiative, and sign up to participate in recruitment. The exception to this would be during COB when a sorority member might encourage a friend, roommate, classmate, whom she knows well, to participate in COB activities, although PNMs interested to participate in COB do reach out on their own to CPCs.

I have known Collegiate panhellenics to make every effort to accommodate PNMs with a special need, so that that PNM could fully participate in rush. I have known of sororities who made accommodations for sisters with a special need. I had a deaf chapter sister when I was in college during the Dark Ages. She fully participated in all our rituals and activities and was a valued member of the chapter. The bottom line is, SHE took the initiative, and signed up for rush.

Preach! You are so right! My chapter (and others at the same school) had sisters with handicaps. New students are all given information on student organizations at orientation, and who has time to chase down PNMs in special categories? Why should we, recruitment information is available to them too! (Oh, I know. So we can check the boxes for NPC/some HQs that want to know how many "non-typical" women we pledged. Alpha Alpha, have you pledged 10% racially diverse women? And 5% handicapped women? And 5% overweight women? If you haven't, you will be penalized in some way. And by the way, feature all those women on your chapter website.)

Not that these women aren't welcome. They should just be selected on their own merits and not rammed down the sororities' throats.

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by andthen

This!! I know at least where I live and spent a semester at CC for a lot of people its either a path into a 4 year school after they've finished a year or two. For me it was a transitional point before I re-enrolled at a different 4 year university than where I first started.

I know for my cousin who is currently enrolled in CC he relocated from out of state, and wanted to establish his residency in the state with the goal of going to a 4 year university. Going to CC was a much more financially viable option for him as he has to pay for school himself. He figures get his gen ed classes done there and then take his core classes for his major at State U, and hopefully doesn't have as much debt when he graduates. For my niece who started at a 4 year school and I even wrote her a rec (when those were a thing), some events made her return to live with her grandmother, she finished out and got a two year degree from the local CC and then transferred back to a local 4 year university to get her bachelors.

I think for others doing CC they might be older students finally deciding to go back to school and CC is a good option for them to work and go to school.

Although there might be a decline in students interested in participating in greek life, I don't feel like exploring membership options at the CC level is the best long term solution. To me most CC's cater to commuter students at least all of the CC's I'm aware of in the general vicinity of where I live all have commuter students who are likely working full or part-time jobs, so then asking these students to say hey you want to join "ABC Sorority", I have a feeling this path is going to lead no where.

That’s been my experience with CC as well. Even the “traditional” age students usually weren’t very traditional in the sense that they were working full time or had children/a child to take care of. It was definitely a place to go to classes and then go home. Everyone had this idea that this was temporary- even the people in associates programs knew they’d only be there for a short period of time. It doesn’t seem like a place where a time consuming (and money consuming) activity like a sorority would work out.

Maybe CCs in other parts of the country are different- idk- this is what it’s like where I am from.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by *winter*

That’s been my experience with CC as well. Even the “traditional” age students usually weren’t very traditional in the sense that they were working full time or had children/a child to take care of. It was definitely a place to go to classes and then go home. Everyone had this idea that this was temporary- even the people in associates programs knew they’d only be there for a short period of time. It doesn’t seem like a place where a time consuming (and money consuming) activity like a sorority would work out.

Maybe CCs in other parts of the country are different- idk- this is what it’s like where I am from.

This may come off as denegration of my own organization (Alpha Phi Omega), but if a service fraternity (where close together housing members *isn't expected) can't keep the large majority of its chapters at community colleges going why would organizations generally oriented to having communal housing as a part of setup work?

Let me phrase it another way. If a four year school offered to open itself up to an NPC sorority BUT declared that
a)not only couldn't the sorority have housing on campus
b)that while roomates could be chosen , housing otherwise would be random, meaning that no hall/floor could be concentrated into.

My guess is that this would be a nogo for most of the NPC. Community Colleges are *worse* than this.

Which in a lot of ways is the difference between community colleges and the 2-year schools that some of the sororities started at. The old 2-year women's schools *very* definitely had housing.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by naraht

This may come off as denegration of my own organization (Alpha Phi Omega), but if a service fraternity (where close together housing members *isn't expected) can't keep the large majority of its chapters at community colleges going why would organizations generally oriented to having communal housing as a part of setup work?

Let me phrase it another way. If a four year school offered to open itself up to an NPC sorority BUT declared that
a)not only couldn't the sorority have housing on campus
b)that while roomates could be chosen , housing otherwise would be random, meaning that no hall/floor could be concentrated into.

My guess is that this would be a nogo for most of the NPC. Community Colleges are *worse* than this.

Which in a lot of ways is the difference between community colleges and the 2-year schools that some of the sororities started at. The old 2-year women's schools *very* definitely had housing.

Not all 4 year colleges have/allow greek housing, but the fact you share that Alpha Phi Omega has had problems sustaining CC chapters speaks volumes as to another chink in the armor of possible NPC CC expansion.

[*winter*]

Another thread got me thinking about this one. Joining a GLO is a lifetime commitment. Not something you can change out when you transfer schools or graduate.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Titchou

NPC has appointed a task force to study the possibility of allowing groups to establish on community college campuses.

Widening the promotion of our NPC Sorority Experience to community college attendees thru meetings/conversations/targeted programs may be a smarter alternative to allowing NPC groups to have chapters at CCs.

[carnation]

I can't see that flying here except for chapters that are desperate.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

Widening the promotion of our NPC Sorority Experience to community college attendees thru meetings/conversations/targeted programs may be a smarter alternative to allowing NPC groups to have chapters at CCs.

That could backfire though, if it’s not expressed explicitly enough that at a lot of schools simply not being a first semester freshman severely curtails your choices. It’s one thing if a CC is a feeder to a nearby university and half the students are HS seniors trying to get ahead on college credits. It’s quite another if the CC is in the middle of nowhere and the students are going on to all kinds of different schools.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by 33girl

That could backfire though, if it’s not expressed explicitly enough that at a lot of schools simply not being a first semester freshman severely curtails your choices. It’s one thing if a CC is a feeder to a nearby university and half the students are HS seniors trying to get ahead on college credits. It’s quite another if the CC is in the middle of nowhere and the students are going on to all kinds of different schools.

One of the *few* Alpha Phi Omega chapters at two year schools that has survived is at Parkland College, which is a community college about 10 minutes away from U of Illinois - main campus. Not only can the strong chapter at UI help, the brothers at Parkland are *mostly* eventually heading to that chapter, so it is probably about as good of an example of a "feeder school" as you can find.