Indiana University Recruitment 2019

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by GreekOne

^^^^ Yes. I suspect that is exactly why the parents are misinformed. I am so appreciative of all of the improvements that IU is making and it ruffles my feathers that people want to blame the system for the no bids.

My apologies if I seem short, but every year people complain about how horrible IU recruitment can be. And every year they try and make it better. At this point it seems to me that we are in a situation where there are plenty of available bids- it's just that the bids that are available aren't to the groups the Ds think they "deserve".

I would LOVE to see a large group of amazing women all join one of the "bottom tier" groups en mass and flip the whole thing on it's head. then again, I would love for the women to stand up to the fraternities and refuse to "pair" unless all the fraternities paired with all the sororities. Alas I doubt that will happen as some of the members seems to relish in the tier structure.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

I would LOVE to see a large group of amazing women all join one of the "bottom tier" groups en mass and flip the whole thing on it's head. then again, I would love for the women to stand up to the fraternities and refuse to "pair" unless all the fraternities paired with all the sororities. Alas I doubt that will happen as some of the members seems to relish in the tier structure.

AMEN!!!! The women have enormous power to change the Greek systems that have the entrenched tiers and hierarchy mind sets. If they don't work together to change that system, well then you have to think that a large number of the women like it just the way that it is.

[Abm91]

Originally Posted by thetalady

AMEN!!!! The women have enormous power to change the Greek systems that have the entrenched tiers and hierarchy mind sets. If they don't work together to change that system, well then you have to think that a large number of the women like it just the way that it is.

I think a large number of girls enjoy the system, but a larger amount find it unfair, cruel and wish women could stand up for other women. I have hope.

[GreekOne]

Originally Posted by Abm91

I think a large number of girls enjoy the system, but a larger amount find it unfair, cruel and wish women could stand up for other women. I have hope.

I just watched the RBG movie "On the Basis of Sex". It was inspiring how she fought for fair treatment. This tier system won't change until someone initiates change with similar bravery.

If Panhellenic voted to implement random pairs perhaps it could happen. Then again, I wonder if fraternities were "forced" to invite certain chapters over if they would be gracious hosts. Perhaps a "top tier" chapter and a "bottom tier" chapter invited at the same time would be as eye opening for these men as it was for ForeverRoses when she met the chapters' recruitment chairs.

[NYCMS]

Originally Posted by GreekOne

If Panhellenic voted to implement random pairs perhaps it could happen. Then again, I wonder if fraternities were "forced" to invite certain chapters over if they would be gracious hosts. Perhaps a "top tier" chapter and a "bottom tier" chapter invited at the same time would be as eye opening for these men as it was for ForeverRoses when she met the chapters' recruitment chairs.

I could swear I read last year about some campus where they did this type of pairing of sororities with a fraternity and it came off fairly well . We didn't have matched pairs on my campus - we had mixers with every house and fraternities did the same with every sorority.

As for the girls who SIP'd, it's sad because we know many girls accept a bid to a house they're unsure about and then fall in love with their sisters and sorority and later wouldn't change a thing. I've seen that with girls who went to two pref parties and got the house "they didn't want" and gave it a shot and loved it.

I'm not sure how to change this mentality because from what I hear from friends (with daughters in college) and read on here, it seems like more and more girls either SIP or don't show up to the house they got a bid to - or they do accept a bid to the "house they didn't want" and then drop out in a matter of weeks without really giving it a shot. I don't recall that happening much when I was in school but then that was many decades ago.

[carnation]

I think we didn't hear about it because back in the day, girls could cut groups they didn't want so they were never even at prefs (much less Bid Day) for unwanted groups.

[BUDelta4Life]

Originally Posted by NYCMS

I could swear I read last year about some campus where they did this type of pairing of sororities with a fraternity and it came off fairly well . We didn't have matched pairs on my campus - we had mixers with every house and fraternities did the same with every sorority.

As for the girls who SIP'd, it's sad because we know many girls accept a bid to a house they're unsure about and then fall in love with their sisters and sorority and later wouldn't change a thing. I've seen that with girls who went to two pref parties and got the house "they didn't want" and gave it a shot and loved it.

I'm not sure how to change this mentality because from what I hear from friends (with daughters in college) and read on here, it seems like more and more girls either SIP or don't show up to the house they got a bid to - or they do accept a bid to the "house they didn't want" and then drop out in a matter of weeks without really giving it a shot. I don't recall that happening much when I was in school but then that was many decades ago.

On my undergrad campus, "pairs" for big all-campus events such as homecoming were (and still are) set by Student Affairs and Student Government. It's a running random rotation; the list shifts every year. Additionally, non-Greek housing units and commuters are included. So ABC sorority and XYZ fraternity might also be paired with a dorm. These are the groups you compete with for the events, such as homecoming decorations or spirit challenges, and these are the groups you socialize with on the day/evening of the event. It's a great way for people to get to know each other all over campus, and whether or not they would be the typical groups to party together, they end up having fun. It really helps overall relations on the campus. As far as other random parties and social events go, each house eventually ends up socializing with all the other houses. While some sororities and fraternities might socialize together more often than others, the groups on campus make a real effort to eventually do things with everyone else. They are now in the habit of having tons of smaller philanthropy events (such as ice cream sundaes on a week night at one house), too, and all the other GLOs are invited. I see tons of photos from these on social media with members of many different GLOs mingling and having fun together. It really helps promote panhellenic spirit.

[GreekOne]

^^^ Love that. Wish it happened everywhere. I have twins who are both at Big10 schools and this is not the norm at either.

[Rod D]

Originally Posted by BUDelta4Life

On my undergrad campus, "pairs" for big all-campus events such as homecoming were (and still are) set by Student Affairs and Student Government. It's a running random rotation; the list shifts every year. Additionally, non-Greek housing units and commuters are included. So ABC sorority and XYZ fraternity might also be paired with a dorm. These are the groups you compete with for the events, such as homecoming decorations or spirit challenges, and these are the groups you socialize with on the day/evening of the event. It's a great way for people to get to know each other all over campus, and whether or not they would be the typical groups to party together, they end up having fun. It really helps overall relations on the campus. As far as other random parties and social events go, each house eventually ends up socializing with all the other houses. While some sororities and fraternities might socialize together more often than others, the groups on campus make a real effort to eventually do things with everyone else. They are now in the habit of having tons of smaller philanthropy events (such as ice cream sundaes on a week night at one house), too, and all the other GLOs are invited. I see tons of photos from these on social media with members of many different GLOs mingling and having fun together. It really helps promote panhellenic spirit.

Something like that might work at a smaller school where the students generally know each other. But at a large school, it's just not viable. IU greek life has over 8,000 students -- more than a lot of school's total enrollments. You really can't force participation. They could do some type of greek carnival or concert or some big event to get everyone to mix. The university is restricting the number of organizations who can participate in events as well. Used to have 6 and 8 houses at big events. Now, no more than 4. That might actually make the problem worse.

[Rod D]

Originally Posted by GreekOne

I just watched the RBG movie "On the Basis of Sex". It was inspiring how she fought for fair treatment. This tier system won't change until someone initiates change with similar bravery.

If Panhellenic voted to implement random pairs perhaps it could happen. Then again, I wonder if fraternities were "forced" to invite certain chapters over if they would be gracious hosts. Perhaps a "top tier" chapter and a "bottom tier" chapter invited at the same time would be as eye opening for these men as it was for ForeverRoses when she met the chapters' recruitment chairs.

This whole "tier" thing is nonsense. Look each Fraternity and each Sorority are different. It seems the "tiers" are only based on parties, not the true makeup of the group -- he who parties the hardest is "top" tier. The reality is some houses (both boys and girls) are party animals -- think Animal House. Others are more grade focused. Some have lower key parties. Some do good philanthropy. Etc. etc. etc. Unfortunately (or fortunately) like minds tend to sick together. You can't pair the academics with the party animals -- it won't be all that much fun. Find your place and go with it.

To answer the question though, my kid who is in a "top" house paired up with a "lower" house to run a charity event and even had other schools involved. It worked out pretty good. Would they "party" with each other? Probably not because they are different types of people. By the way, Kid's house raised the most money -- so I guess they are top.

[BUDelta4Life]

Originally Posted by GreekOne

I just watched the RBG movie "On the Basis of Sex". It was inspiring how she fought for fair treatment. This tier system won't change until someone initiates change with similar bravery.

If Panhellenic voted to implement random pairs perhaps it could happen. Then again, I wonder if fraternities were "forced" to invite certain chapters over if they would be gracious hosts. Perhaps a "top tier" chapter and a "bottom tier" chapter invited at the same time would be as eye opening for these men as it was for ForeverRoses when she met the chapters' recruitment chairs.

THIS. ^^ Panhellenic has the power to change it. But, even on Panhel, you have representatives of chapters who like it this way. If Panhel and IFC worked together and created a random, rotating structure, this would stop. It would be bumpy at first, but after a few years, it would be the norm.

Also, the idea of pairing some sorority chapters together is a good one and would (should?) be eye-opening for the men. As an undergraduate of a chapter that sometimes struggled with an unfair reputation, we found this to be enormously helpful on my campus. We joined with two other chapters for a shared social with two other fraternities, and we started to get a lot of comments from the men such as, "Wow, I didn't know you had so many nice/fun/sweet girls in your house." It does work.

[ForrestGrump]

Originally Posted by BUDelta4Life

THIS. ^^ Panhellenic has the power to change it. But, even on Panhel, you have representatives of chapters who like it this way. If Panhel and IFC worked together and created a random, rotating structure, this would stop. It would be bumpy at first, but after a few years, it would be the norm.

Also, the idea of pairing some sorority chapters together is a good one and would (should?) be eye-opening for the men. As an undergraduate of a chapter that sometimes struggled with an unfair reputation, we found this to be enormously helpful on my campus. We joined with two other chapters for a shared social with two other fraternities, and we started to get a lot of comments from the men such as, "Wow, I didn't know you had so many nice/fun/sweet girls in your house." It does work.

Back in the stone ages, when I was an active, fraternities would often pair up with a couple of the sororities for the larger theme-party events. It helped spread the wealth as far as party planning and prep was concerned, and ensured that the fraternity had a solid group of women in attendance for the "formative" hours of the party (at my campus, such parties were typically closed for the first one or two hours, and then opened to everyone). To be honest, I found those parties more fun -- you can bond a lot with other women while browning 50 pounds of hamburger for tacos, and perfecting the margarita recipe.

[PhilTau]

Originally Posted by Abm91

I think a large number of girls enjoy the system, but a larger amount find it unfair, cruel and wish women could stand up for other women. I have hope.

All the angst over tiers - Why do women do this to themselves?

I was an active at a large state university well before Greek Rank invented the concept of tiers. But even back in the Stone Age we kinda knew what was what. My fraternity was well known, very visible and well regarded, with about 35 actives (low average for the campus). Each school year we tried to have mixers/socials with every sorority - from those generally considered (using today's terminology as a shorthand reference) "top tier" to those considered "lower tier."

Here are my observations. Please note that I do not believe my experiences and opinions are unique and many fraternity members have had similar experiences.

1) The women in the "lower tier" sororities generally shared an important and desirable trait - THEY SHOWED UP. At that time, mixers were funded 100 percent by the fraternity hosting the event. When we held a mixer with a "lower tier" sorority they would show up in numbers and stay for hours. Overall - we thought they were more fun and generally had better social skills than the "top tier" groups. We could always count on them for a fun evening. This was the general opinion and experience of other fraternities as well.

This was not true with some (not all) of the so called "top tier" sororities. It was always hit or miss with them. We never knew how many would be showing up. (Some of these groups had 100+ members.) Sometimes only their pledges/new members would show up. Believe me, we remembered and bore some resentment towards the group because of this. Other fraternities also experienced this and felt the same way.

2) When I became an upperclassman, the upperclasswomen in the upper tier sororities became MIA. Many of them simply stopped going to Greek stuff. (Might have been before the concept of levying fines for non attendance became a thing.) Or they would go for only 10 or 15 minutes, then leave. Not true for the "lower tier" girls. Their upperclasswomen would stay the duration.

I'll leave it to someone else to explain this. All I can say is that, in general, most fraternities like groups that like them. They do not like snobs - even pretty ones. They like women to show up and expect to have fun and do their part, regardless of their "tier." To most of them, the "tier" system is absolutely and solely about looks - and that's as deep as their analysis goes.

[GreekOne]

Originally Posted by PhilTau

All the angst over tiers - Why do women do this to themselves?

I was an active at a large state university well before Greek Rank invented the concept of tiers. But even back in the Stone Age we kinda knew what was what. My fraternity was well known, very visible and well regarded, with about 35 actives (low average for the campus). Each school year we tried to have mixers/socials with every sorority - from those generally considered (using today's terminology as a shorthand reference) "top tier" to those considered "lower tier."

Here are my observations. Please note that I do not believe my experiences and opinions are unique and many fraternity members have had similar experiences.

1) The women in the "lower tier" sororities generally shared an important and desirable trait - THEY SHOWED UP. At that time, mixers were funded 100 percent by the fraternity hosting the event. When we held a mixer with a "lower tier" sorority they would show up in numbers and stay for hours. Overall - we thought they were more fun and generally had better social skills than the "top tier" groups. We could always count on them for a fun evening. This was the general opinion and experience of other fraternities as well.

This was not true with some (not all) of the so called "top tier" sororities. It was always hit or miss with them. We never knew how many would be showing up. (Some of these groups had 100+ members.) Sometimes only their pledges/new members would show up. Believe me, we remembered and bore some resentment towards the group because of this. Other fraternities also experienced this and felt the same way.

2) When I became an upperclassman, the upperclasswomen in the upper tier sororities became MIA. Many of them simply stopped going to Greek stuff. (Might have been before the concept of levying fines for non attendance became a thing.) Or they would go for only 10 or 15 minutes, then leave. Not true for the "lower tier" girls. Their upperclasswomen would stay the duration.

I'll leave it to someone else to explain this. All I can say is that, in general, most fraternities like groups that like them. They do not like snobs - even pretty ones. They like women to show up and expect to have fun and do their part, regardless of their "tier." To most of them, the "tier" system is absolutely and solely about looks - and that's as deep as their analysis goes.

Could not agree with you more. I wish more fraternity men understood this. Unfortunately, the fraternities extend the invitations and therefore hold the cards. If the invitation is never extended, the sorority women have no way to help these young men come to realize what you did years ago.

Our social system (in the 80s) was as you and others have described. We mixed with absolutely every single chapter on campus. There were no artificial barriers established that prevented that. I think the kids today are really missing the boat on this. If the social stigma was removed, the issues with all the dropping, SIPs, etc would follow.

At IU, it is just as bad for the fraternity men. The chapters without houses are labeled as "irrelevant". Yet, I am sure they are enjoying themselves just as much as those living it up on N Jordan.

If only these 18/19 yo collegians could see it through our eyes

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by GreekOne

Could not agree with you more. I wish more fraternity men understood this. Unfortunately, the fraternities extend the invitations and therefore hold the cards. If the invitation is never extended, the sorority women have no way to help these young men come to realize what you did years ago.

Our social system (in the 80s) was as you and others have described. We mixed with absolutely every single chapter on campus. There were no artificial barriers established that prevented that. I think the kids today are really missing the boat on this. If the social stigma was removed, the issues with all the dropping, SIPs, etc would follow.

At IU, it is just as bad for the fraternity men. The chapters without houses are labeled as "irrelevant". Yet, I am sure they are enjoying themselves just as much as those living it up on N Jordan.

If only these 18/19 yo collegians could see it through our eyes

Not sure where you and PhilTau went to college, but I can assure you that tiers existed well before that site. Tiers were so bad on my campus in the late 80s that top tier women would cross the street on the main sorority row rather than pass by lower tier women. Top tier houses nominated a much less qualified top tier woman to run for Panhel President against a much more qualified lower tier woman because it was unthinkable that a lower tier woman would be Panhel President. (The lower tier woman won and was fantastic.) At one point Panhel insisted on bringing in a new sorority even though there were FIVE chapters that struggled to make quota each year. Rather than working to help those five chapters succeed, they would rather bring in another sorority.

Tiers rarely mixed for parties. Top tier sororities partied with top tier fraternities. Middle tier sororities partied with middle tier fraternities. And lower tier sororities partied with lower tier fraternities.

And I can tell you by reading about my campus on that site that nothing has changed.

I just thank God I was Greek before smart phones. social media, and all the rest.