University of Alabama Alpha Phi Expelled for Racist Video

[hockeyfan]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

I understand the concerns regarding the shortness of the new member period, but I chafe at little at all the war stories told of "the good ole days" where pledge semesters were longer and pledge classes were expected to do more to earn initiation.

I was initiated less than a year ago and I just wanted to hop in and say that I agree with you. I don't mean to invalidate or lessen anyone else's experience, but I find nostalgia is an easy trap to fall into. Everything seems better in hindsight. While I also understand concerns about the shortness of the new member period, I really do think there are ways to combat the supposed lack of knowledge recent initiates have. MY chapter required us to basically memorize every fact about Kappa Delta in order to pass. In another chapter on my campus, the VP of education walked out of the room before the exam began and told them to Google anything they couldn't remember. I feel that I know a GREAT deal about Kappa Delta both nationally and within my chapter. My friends in that other chapter do not, even though our new member periods were the same length.

I am also wary of the notion, often brought up by fraternity men on my campus who question the new member process for sororities, that a new member experience without hazing cannot possibly "bond" people together. I think this is a sad misunderstanding of the difference between healthy bonding and the psychological phenomenon of trauma bonding - no matter how minor this trauma may seem to someone who "earned it" more. One of my closest friends from summer camp is currently being treated for PTSD because of hazing she experienced in her varsity sports team in high school - hazing I'm sure many people would justify as her "earning" her position as a member of the team. But I would much rather follow seemingly arbitrary rules about transportation or mandatory events than have one of my sisters psychologically impacted by how our new member process made her feel. We give up some things to gain others.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by hockeyfan

I am also wary of the notion, often brought up by fraternity men on my campus who question the new member process for sororities, that a new member experience without hazing cannot possibly "bond" people together.

That's ridiculous. If they're hazing as part of their new member experience and discussing it openly with non members.... well, the first rule of fight club applies. Joking aside, I don't think most fraternities haze anymore. A not insignificant minority still do, but our national organizations (mostly) have spent years trying to eradicate the practice.

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That's ridiculous. If they're hazing as part of their new member experience and discussing it openly with non members.... well, the first rule of fight club applies. Joking aside, I don't think most fraternities haze anymore. A not insignificant minority still do, but our national organizations (mostly) have spent years trying to eradicate the practice.

I know we're all just spouting anecdotes here, but by the definitions of hazing we've mentioned every single fraternity I ever encountered was doing it at Clemson. Every single one I knew someone in (which was most but admittedly not all, although several of the ones I didn't know anyone in were closed for risk violations), from the lowliest "bottom tier" chapter to the most prestigious ones. Not all of them were engaging in all forms of hazing at once, but I could give a dozen examples and not run out. I have zero faith that hazing is not still commonplace, especially at schools where it's an entrenched part of the culture.

And that attitude hockeyfan mentioned that without hazing, a chapter is worthless is still very, very common at the schools I've been at and know people from. If you don't have some sort of "process", and that phrase is left vague intentionally, then you're not a "real" fraternity. I've seen this for IFC, NPHC, commuter schools through Alabama itself. I don't think that's gone away.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

I know we're all just spouting anecdotes here, but by the definitions of hazing we've mentioned every single fraternity I ever encountered was doing it at Clemson. Every single one I knew someone in (which was most but admittedly not all, although several of the ones I didn't know anyone in were closed for risk violations), from the lowliest "bottom tier" chapter to the most prestigious ones. Not all of them were engaging in all forms of hazing at once, but I could give a dozen examples and not run out. I have zero faith that hazing is not still commonplace, especially at schools where it's an entrenched part of the culture.

And that attitude hockeyfan mentioned that without hazing, a chapter is worthless is still very, very common at the schools I've been at and know people from. If you don't have some sort of "process", and that phrase is left vague intentionally, then you're not a "real" fraternity. I've seen this for IFC, NPHC, commuter schools through Alabama itself. I don't think that's gone away.

In my experience... same.