STOP BEING SO STUPID!

[Low D Flat]

What is the goal of punishment? Deterrance? Well it's worked nicely so far, right?

Actually, I think it's worked extremely well. How common was this type of party in the 80s? In the 60s? How much does it happen now? It hasn't been eradicated, but there's probably been a 95% drop -- maybe even 99%*. So it seems to me that campaigns and rules barring ethnic themes/costumes do work.

*And there were far worse party themes back in the day. One of the SEC NPC chapters posted a retro picture from the 50s or early 60s of a rush party, and you could just barely see the sign welcoming freshmen to the "XYZ Plantation."

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Low D Flat

Actually, I think it's worked extremely well. How common was this type of party in the 80s? In the 60s? How much does it happen now?

I don't remember parties like this in the 80s.* Not saying they didn't happen, and maybe it was lack of social media where every little aspect of life is publicized around the globe, but in my experience at least these types of parties weren't really that common back then. We were too busy having toga parties and the like.


* Not including "life on the plantation" parties. Those I definitely remember.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't remember parties like this in the 80s.* Not saying they didn't happen, and maybe it was lack of social media where every little aspect of life is publicized around the globe, but in my experience at least these types of parties weren't really that common back then. We were too busy having toga parties and the like.


* Not including "life on the plantation" parties. Those I definitely remember.

Kappa Alpha Order did (maybe still does) the Old South formals where folks dress in antebellum garb. They flew (and maybe still fly) the Confederate flag, etc.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Kappa Alpha Order did (maybe still does) the Old South formals where folks dress in antebellum garb. They flew (and maybe still fly) the Confederate flag, etc.

I don't know the status of Old South, but I'm pretty sure KA has forbidden use of the Confederate flag.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

You are leaping.

In that case, schools and GLOs need to revise quite a few of their policies and procedures. They violate our Riiiiiiiiiiiiights.

Not really, if I understand what he's saying, given his comment upthread about this action possibly being okay if the school were private and the prison reference for Westboro Baptist.

I think he's saying in America, you aren't entitled to see the government punish someone because you or others find their speech offensive. And that's true. And the government includes public universities. (Free speech rights may not be quite as absolute in primary and secondary schools because of the nature of those schools.)

Of course, that doesn't mean people or groups are immune from the non-governmental consequences (from fellow students, from GLO HQs, etc.) of their speech. And there could be "hostile environment" considerations beyond speech itself.

And I think there is a legitimate question raised: Is dressing up in sombreros and serapes for "Taco Tuesday" "speech" in the constitutional sense?

[DrPhil]

I didn't notice this was about government punishment. How did this discussion become about government punishment? Even when talking about public vs private institutions and organizations, schools and GLOs always maintain the ability to impose sanctions. They don't have to use government hate crime legislation to do so.

I'm talking about schools and GLOs choosing to do something beyond a cliche' racial sensitivity training.

There's nothing wrong with Taco Tuesday as long as attendees don't show up imitating and mocking "Mexicans" (or looking and acting like Speedy Gonzalez, gang members, etc). The proposed subjectivity is why it is up to the school and GLO to figure out wether there will be a sanction and what will be the sanction. This is no different than the costume parties GCers rant about annually.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't remember parties like this in the 80s.* Not saying they didn't happen, and maybe it was lack of social media where every little aspect of life is publicized around the globe, but in my experience at least these types of parties weren't really that common back then. We were too busy having toga parties and the like.


* Not including "life on the plantation" parties. Those I definitely remember.

Our theme parties in the mid-80s were: Toga Party, 50s party, Roaring 20s, Beach Party, Halloween party, Hawaiian party... that's about it from what I can remember. We recycled those themes over and over.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Our theme parties in the mid-80s were: Toga Party, 50s party, Roaring 20s, Beach Party, Halloween party, Hawaiian party... that's about it from what I can remember. We recycled those themes over and over.

Hawaiian Party? Toga Party? That's cultural appropriation! Your group should have been placed on double secret probation.

[Sciencewoman]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Our theme parties in the mid-80s were: Toga Party, 50s party, Roaring 20s, Beach Party, Halloween party, Hawaiian party... that's about it from what I can remember. We recycled those themes over and over.

I do recall Pimp and Prostitute -- that was mainly an excuse to dress in revealing clothing around the fraternity men, and it was easy to find cheap, leftover 70s clothes at Goodwill.

I hate to say it, but the shoes we reserved for "slutty" costume attire were tamer than the platform stilettos I see college women frequently wearing today...along with the tight, tube skirts for clubbing.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I didn't notice this was about government punishment. How did this discussion become about government punishment?

RTA. This is about the University of California Fullerton imposing sanctions on a sorority because they offended some way-too-sensitive people.

Even when talking about public vs private institutions and organizations, schools and GLOs always maintain the ability to impose sanctions. They don't have to use government hate crime legislation to do so.

Punishing students for off-campus conduct (which is probably speech in this case) at a social event unrelated to any university programming... let's just say if someone brought me this case I'd happily be off to federal court with this thing. Might even get a grant or some help from the ACLU.

If ADPi was sanctioning their own chapter, fine, that's their private business. If a private school is sanctioning the conduct of their students, they are free to do so. Government schools, however, have to respect your constitutional rights, one of which is being able to say just about any damn thing you want without penalty.

I'm talking about schools and GLOs choosing to do something beyond a cliche' racial sensitivity training.

GLOs can do, schools? I mean.. maybe they could order sensitivity training.. that might fly, but even that, in my opinion is a stretch.

There's nothing wrong with Taco Tuesday as long as attendees don't show up imitating and mocking "Mexicans" (or looking and acting like Speedy Gonzalez, gang members, etc). The proposed subjectivity is why it is up to the school and GLO to figure out wether there will be a sanction and what will be the sanction. This is no different than the costume parties GCers rant about annually.

I'd argue that it's not up to the school. The GLO though? Heck yeah. Can the students protest? Sure. Name and shame? Ok. Picket the house during rush? You betcha. Get the Dean of Students to penalize the organization? I don't think so.

Schools need to know their limits. Years ago, I nearly had an issue with a Greek Life adviser with the group I advise. An angry lawyer letter was enough to put the kabosh on anything the school was thinking about doing.

This is an academic discussion of course, I'm guessing that this is going forward with the cooperation of the chapter's alumni/national office, etc.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Government schools, however, have to respect your constitutional rights, one of which is being able to say just about any damn thing you want without penalty.

There are no criminal penalties being applied. The sanctions are targeting an organization, not an individual. Courts have agreed many times that there are limits on free speech.

All of which is to say that this argument is so bad, I think you must be trolling.