Alabama recruitment fall-out

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

Those numbers appear to be old stats regarding degree distribution by race – these may be more up-to-date and detailed:

ASU
1.8% American Indian/Alaskan Native
6.1% Asian
5.3% Black/African-American
20.1% Hispanic/Latino
3.1% Multi-race (not Hispanic/Latino)
0.3% Native Hawaiian/ Pacific Islander
62.2% White
1.2% Unknown

International Students
3.9% from 93 countries
http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg06_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1096

University of Alabama
0.4% American Indian/Alaskan Native
1.1% Asian
12.1% Black/African-American
2.9% Hispanic/Latino
1.7% Multi-race (not Hispanic/Latino)
0.1% Native Hawaiian/ Pacific Islander
81.3% White
0.3% Unknown

International Students
2.3% from 47 countries
http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/c...l?schoolId=469




I think the assumption has been (based on the assumption made and spun by authors of news articles) that the young lady of attention last fall at Bama was released by all chapters. She dropped out of formal recruitment, thus the assumption, but perhaps not because all chapters released her.



FWIW, there are also women of other minorities in chapters at Bama. Even in the chapter most often featured in the press for releasing the trustee’s granddaughter.

Also FWIW, Alabama colleges and universities within an hour’s distance of Bama also have minority members in their NPC chapters – all of these campuses have AA NPC chapter members: University of Alabama Birmingham, Birmingham Southern, Samford, University of Montevallo, and the University of West Alabama – that I know of. And so do universities in other regions of the state. I don’t know if onlookers in other areas of the country realize that.

So in my mind, this seems less a state of Alabama issue (or less a problem persisting in the south, as some have generalized), and more an issue involving the huge intensive recruitment at Bama – and AA women as the minority underrepresented.



I agree – I understand as few as 2 (and at most 4) AA PNMs participated (at some point) in NPC recruitment at Bama last fall. Even with a COB round implemented specifically to recruit and pledge minority women, relatively few AA women joined. Unless far many more register for recruitment, I don’t know how the goal of “complete integration,” as recently passed by the SGA , will be accomplished. (not that I read the resolution, but it seems a lot like grandstanding after the fact)

I feel like any racial barriers to the NPC recruitment process have been moved aside as much as is institutionally possible. The question I have raised, however, is . . . will this be enough to accomplish that goal?

Would you want to be an AA woman who joined an NPC sorority in the middle of that hurly burly at Alabama last fall? I wouldn't. I'd feel like I was under a microscope with the Crimson, the nationals and the administration all looking at me. I'd feel like I was only being pledged because I was black and not because the sorority really wanted me. I'd feel like my bid was given grudgingly. I'd feel like I was a token member who was giving the chapter(s) cover for being as racist as they wanna be. In the second article posted to this thread, an AA PNM said that she chose to join AKA over an NPC sorority because she didn't feel entirely welcome at NPC sororities. I totally get that and I'd feel the same as her in that situation.

I don't think the system will ever completely integrate and I don't think that should be our goal. If you're counting what percentage of AA women are Greek on any campus, you have to count the women who join historically black GLOs in that percentage. It's not fair or true to say that Alabama has an all white sorority system. It doesn't. It does have an overly segregated system, though, and that system didn't treat AA PNMs fairly when it came to NPC recruitment.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by KDCat

Would you want to be an AA woman who joined an NPC sorority in the middle of that hurly burly at Alabama last fall? I wouldn't.

No, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t want to be her mother either.

Originally Posted by KDCat

I'd feel like I was under a microscope with the Crimson, the nationals and the administration all looking at me.

And ^that’s why. I wouldn’t want my daughter to be fodder for the press, especially for those interested in manufacturing a sensational story regardless of the outcome. The article linked at the beginning of this thread is a tabloid-type example of how some continue to milk the controversy:

University Of Alabama’s Sororities Still Resist Integrating
Seven months after allegations of racism were raised, little has changed.

What exactly should have changed since last fall (that hasn’t) to deliver Bama sororities from segregation? In what ways are sororities "resisting?"

Originally Posted by KDCat

I'd feel like I was only being pledged because I was black and not because the sorority really wanted me. I'd feel like my bid was given grudgingly. I'd feel like I was a token member who was giving the chapter(s) cover for being as racist as they wanna be.

Certainly understandable, though according to the media coverage, actives in identified sororities did want a particular AA member. The other girls who accepted bids must have felt the offer was sincere, otherwise, why would they accept?

Originally Posted by KDCat

In the second article posted to this thread, an AA PNM said that she chose to join AKA over an NPC sorority because she didn't feel entirely welcome at NPC sororities. I totally get that and I'd feel the same as her in that situation.

She did not elect to participate in any NPC recruitment, yet takes a swipe at the sororities offering her a bid. If anything, her assumption that she would be “criticized and ostracized” is just divisive speculation – she essentially spit on the chapters who extended an offer. And then she joined a segregated AA sorority:

UA sophomore Khortlan Patterson, a black woman from Houston, was offered multiple bids to join Alabama’s traditionally white Panhellenic sororities but turned them down. “I don’t want to pay $6,000 a year to get criticized and ostracized,” Patterson said. “I don’t want to pay money to be a part of that.”
Instead, Patterson pledged Alpha Kappa Alpha, the first historically African-American sorority. She considered joining a Panhellenic chapter in order to push change from the inside, but ultimately, Patterson decided it would have been more of a trial than an opportunity.

I think Miss Patterson is more interested in media attention than promoting change. Her words will certainly not encourage other AA women to pursue NPC membership.

Originally Posted by KDCat

I don't think the system will ever completely integrate and I don't think that should be our goal.

I’m still trying to figure out what “completely integrate” means. What does it mean? At what threshold will a chapter be considered integrated?

I can’t think of a more favorable situation for a minority PNM to receive a bid from a historically white sorority than UofA rush this fall. And I can’t think of a more UNfavorable situation for PNMs and chapters in terms of media and administrative attention than UofA rush this fall.

It may be a very stressful fall recruitment for all concerned. If the chapters offer a bid to an AA PNM, they face accusations of “tokenism.” If they release an AA PNM, they face accusations of racism. The AA PNMs face the prospect of scrutiny by onlookers (administrative and otherwise) and unwanted attention by those seeking a story.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

She did not elect to participate in any NPC recruitment, yet takes a swipe at the sororities offering her a bid. If anything, her assumption that she would be “criticized and ostracized” is just divisive speculation – she essentially spit on the chapters who extended an offer. And then she joined a segregated AA sorority:

No. No. No.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

...a segregated AA sorority:

Stuff like this is why this thread is just back-and-forth nonsense.

I think HartofSEC is one of the people in the older thread who claimed not to notice or be concerned with race because "she's a sister".

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

No, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t want to be her mother either.



And ^that’s why. I wouldn’t want my daughter to be fodder for the press, especially for those interested in manufacturing a sensational story regardless of the outcome. The article linked at the beginning of this thread is a tabloid-type example of how some continue to milk the controversy:


What exactly should have changed since last fall (that hasn’t) to deliver Bama sororities from segregation? In what ways are sororities "resisting?"




Certainly understandable, though according to the media coverage, actives in identified sororities did want a particular AA member. The other girls who accepted bids must have felt the offer was sincere, otherwise, why would they accept?



She did not elect to participate in any NPC recruitment, yet takes a swipe at the sororities offering her a bid. If anything, her assumption that she would be “criticized and ostracized” is just divisive speculation – she essentially spit on the chapters who extended an offer. And then she joined a segregated AA sorority:


I think Miss Patterson is more interested in media attention than promoting change. Her words will certainly not encourage other AA women to pursue NPC membership.



I’m still trying to figure out what “completely integrate” means. What does it mean? At what threshold will a chapter be considered integrated?

I can’t think of a more favorable situation for a minority PNM to receive a bid from a historically white sorority than UofA rush this fall. And I can’t think of a more UNfavorable situation for PNMs and chapters in terms of media and administrative attention than UofA rush this fall.

It may be a very stressful fall recruitment for all concerned. If the chapters offer a bid to an AA PNM, they face accusations of “tokenism.” If they release an AA PNM, they face accusations of racism. The AA PNMs face the prospect of scrutiny by onlookers (administrative and otherwise) and unwanted attention by those seeking a story.

"Completely integrate" = AA women rush and are bid in numbers representative of their percentage of the campus population. My previous point about that was that I think it's better to look at total percentages of AA women served by both NPC sororities and by historically AA sororities and multicultural societies.

Please don't bag on AKA. When white students present themselves as PNMS and are being excluded from AKA because of their race, AKA can deal with that problem then. In this case, NPC sororities at Alabama excluded AA PNMs because of their skin color. That's not fair. That's not in compliance with our current membership selection standards. We need to get into compliance with our own standards.

NOT being in compliance with our own standards is what caused this problem. If one particular AA PNM talked some stuff about our chapters, we pretty much had it coming for not living up to the standards we have set for ourselves.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by KDCat

When white students present themselves as PNMS and are being excluded from AKA because of their race, AKA can deal with that problem then.

And it is NOT equivalent. Setting aside the fact that there are indeed white women in AKA, people in the historically oppressed group are entitled to spaces of their own. AKA is not obligated to integrate at any point in order for NPC groups to be a problem.

[DrPhil]

The fact that HartofSEC needs to be schooled on that proves my point from pages ago. No matter how NPC recruits, the majority of NPC chapters will not get more nonwhite members because of issues with the overall culture. When that culture changes, only then will diverse recruitment efforts possibly result in an increase in nonwhites.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

And it is NOT equivalent. Setting aside the fact that there are indeed white women in AKA, people in the historically oppressed group are entitled to spaces of their own. AKA is not obligated to integrate at any point in order for NPC groups to be a problem.

There are indeed AA women in NPC chapters. Just not at Alabama before now (other than one exception I recall from years ago).

There are indeed no white women in AKA at Alabama. I don't know how many (if any) have pursued intake over the years. Neither do you. I don't have any reason to think they have eliminated a candidate due to race.

However, it appears that according to their purpose, they are entitled not to integrate.

I don't really see any point in arguing the fairness of this. As far as I know the AKAs have a good relationship with the NPC sororities with whom they share sorority row.

I just pointed out that Miss Patterson's disparaging assumptions are discouraging and counter-productive to the integration changes she claims to champion. And that she is a member of a segregated sorority.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

And that she is a member of a segregated sorority.

I wouldn't want to join an NPC chapter in which members were so obtuse.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KDCat

"Completely integrate" = AA women rush and are bid in numbers representative of their percentage of the campus population. My previous point about that was that I think it's better to look at total percentages of AA women served by both NPC sororities and by historically AA sororities and multicultural sororities.

If that's truly what the resolution meant, that's really stupid. (I know you are the messenger not the author. :-)) That's along the same lines of people who thought A-A people wanted to integrate schools because they were super excited about going to school with white people.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by KDCat

"Completely integrate" = AA women rush and are bid in numbers representative of their percentage of the campus population. My previous point about that was that I think it's better to look at total percentages of AA women served by both NPC sororities and by historically AA sororities and multicultural societies.

I don't anticipate that AA girls will participate in NPC recruitment at numbers approaching those, in the near future anyway. As it is, there are fewer than 100 (far fewer in spring) total members of the NPHC sororities on campus.

Originally Posted by KDCat

Please don't bag on AKA. When white students present themselves as PNMS and are being excluded from AKA because of their race, AKA can deal with that problem then. In this case, NPC sororities at Alabama excluded AA PNMs because of their skin color. That's not fair. That's not in compliance with our current membership selection standards. We need to get into compliance with our own standards.

NOT being in compliance with our own standards is what caused this problem. If one particular AA PNM talked some stuff about our chapters, we pretty much had it coming for not living up to the standards we have set for ourselves.

I wasn't criticizing AKA. I was criticizing Miss Patterson's disparaging assumptions.

On the other hand, you seem to be implying that your chapter at Bama excluded the 2 (?) AA PNMs because of their skin color. How do you know this? Were you privy to their membership selection?