Indiana University 2014 Recruitment

[silver_blue]

Originally Posted by stbemtpynest

I was the one who mentioned that an active at AXO told my daughter they were allowing seniors to live out. This was during 21 party. It was just one person telling one person. It could have been misinterpreted. Or as silver_blue said, maybe that didn't impact their quota (however it is determined...).

It depends when they changed the policy, too. If they just changed it last semester, then it was probably too late for the current juniors to find houses/apartments for their senior year (they go FAST). Plus, even though AXO and others are allowing senior live outs, members of chapters like that might not want to be in the first senior live out class. Maybe it'll have more of an impact next year.

[Mom64]

Originally Posted by silver_blue

It depends when they changed the policy, too. If they just changed it last semester, then it was probably too late for the current juniors to find houses/apartments for their senior year (they go FAST). Plus, even though AXO and others are allowing senior live outs, members of chapters like that might not want to be in the first senior live out class. Maybe it'll have more of an impact next year.

It can't be finding houses/apartments that's the issue. Trust me, my daughter and her other friends with no bids are looking at quite a few in the next few days. I believe it is probably more of a transition thing and the impact will be felt in future years. At least it is a step in the right direction and hopefully more chapters will follow suit.

[33girl]

The "number shaming" in this thread needs to STOP. Membership selection is still membership selection and sororities still have the prerogative to take quota/bid up to total, take NO women at all, or do something in between. That prerogative doesn't disappear because it's IU. We have no idea why chapters took the size classes they took. So quit.

Also, I don't think comparing this to Alabama is appropriate. The women in Alabama were bucking something that's not just particular to their school.

[silver_blue]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The "number shaming" in this thread needs to STOP. Membership selection is still membership selection and sororities still have the prerogative to take quota/bid up to total, take NO women at all, or do something in between. That prerogative doesn't disappear because it's IU. We have no idea why chapters took the size classes they took. So quit.

Also, I don't think comparing this to Alabama is appropriate. The women in Alabama were bucking something that's not just particular to their school.

We know exactly why they took the numbers they did: because that's the number of beds they'll have in their houses next year. "Number shaming" wouldn't exist if all groups went to a normal quota system. I think ALL of them have to do it to make it work, though.

[suzy88]

The "number shaming" in this thread needs to STOP. Membership selection is still membership selection and sororities still have the prerogative to take quota/bid up to total, take NO women at all, or do something in between. That prerogative doesn't disappear because it's IU. We have no idea why chapters took the size classes they took. So quit.

The real "shame" here is that the sororities know that the current system demoralizes young women and destroys their self esteem and they don't care. They prefer exclusivity. They should take a look at their own recruiting material and see that they are values based organizations that are meant to uplift women. They are not fulfilling their own mission. That is the shame. Just because something is "their prerogative" doesn't make it right.

[Mom64]

Originally Posted by suzy88

The real "shame" here is that the sororities know that the current system demoralizes young women and destroys their self esteem and they don't care. They prefer exclusivity. They should take a look at their own recruiting material and see that they are values based organizations that are meant to uplift women. They are not fulfilling their own mission. That is the shame. Just because something is "their prerogative" doesn't make it right.

Thank you. Most of the women entered the process with excitement, high hopes and enthusiasm. Too, too many were turned away.

[33girl]

^^^^you are completely missing my point.

My point is that this or that group is being criticized for taking too few women. With the current system, they're doing what they're supposed to do. I doubt that ZTA just decided this week to allow senior live-outs and compel the chapter to take more members than the norm for the current system. I mean people are acting like these chapters should have woken up today and changed everything because of a thread on Greek Chat. This rush was a mess because of the missed party date and the time to think about changes is when everyone is calmed down from rush, NOT in the middle of it.

[Mom64]

Originally Posted by 33girl

^^^^you are completely missing my point.

My point is that this or that group is being criticized for taking too few women. With the current system, they're doing what they're supposed to do. I doubt that ZTA just decided this week to allow senior live-outs and compel the chapter to take more members than the norm for the current system. I mean people are acting like these chapters should have woken up today and changed everything because of a thread on Greek Chat. This rush was a mess because of the missed party date and the time to think about changes is when everyone is calmed down from rush, NOT in the middle of it.

This rush was a mess... guess it's too bad for all those women who counted on the powers that be to adapt and figure out a rush schedule that wouldn't be a mess rather than cutting a party.

Time to think about changes?? From the postings here, it seems this has been going on for decades at IU. Bottom Line, no one wants anything to change. The IU Greeks should be ashamed of themselves and chapters in other schools should tell them such. The IU Greek system is a huge blemish on the nationwide Greek system.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by suzy88

The real "shame" here is that the sororities know that the current system demoralizes young women and destroys their self esteem and they don't care. They prefer exclusivity. They should take a look at their own recruiting material and see that they are values based organizations that are meant to uplift women. They are not fulfilling their own mission. That is the shame. Just because something is "their prerogative" doesn't make it right.

I understand that people are upset. I am so sorry that there are women who did not get bids.

However, it is quite the accusation to put on 18-22 year olds to say that they are "destroying and demoralizing young women." We've said in here before that this is likely a university issue, not something that the women themselves can change.

Again, I get that folks are upset. But no collegian goes into recruitment thinking "yes, let's DESTROY some self-esteem!"

[suzy88]

Some missed my point. Yes, I do get that these young women are not trying to hurt others. However, this system does just that. I have freshman and junior daughters at this university, I know many, many wonderful young women in sororities at IU, I meant the organization, not the individual women. Does the organization hold any responsibility for what happens with their own rush? If not, who does?

[ZTAIUalum]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I understand that people are upset. I am so sorry that there are women who did not get bids.

However, it is quite the accusation to put on 18-22 year olds to say that they are "destroying and demoralizing young women." We've said in here before that this is likely a university issue, not something that the women themselves can change.

Again, I get that folks are upset. But no collegian goes into recruitment thinking "yes, let's DESTROY some self-esteem!"

You are correct! I wholeheartedly agree. Emotions run high when a loved one or oneself is hurt. No one does this with malice...

[Katmandu]

In no greek system except for one, do all women who register have happy outcomes or self determine their ending. In every system, there are heartbreaks and bad outcomes. But ascribing deliberate malice, using loaded words, such as "bullying", and "hazing" is going too far in my opinion. Most people agree this particular system is flawed, but even if changed there will still be girls who go bidless or feel hurt, and sororities still have the right to invite, not invite, and rank and select members according to their own reasons.

I would be interested in knowing how many of the bidless women maximized their options and how many left off one or more chnpters from their final card. Maybe none, but I suspect more than a few.

It was striking to me how much all of the new members looked alike....really, really, alike.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Katmandu

In no greek system except for one, do all women who register have happy outcomes or self determine their ending. In every system, there are heartbreaks and bad outcomes. But ascribing deliberate malice, using loaded words, such as "bullying", and "hazing" is going too far in my opinion. Most people agree this particular system is flawed, but even if changed there will still be girls who go bidless or feel hurt, and sororities still have the right to invite, not invite, and rank and select members according to their own reasons.

This.

[Iu mom]

Originally Posted by Katmandu

In no greek system except for one, do all women who register have happy outcomes or self determine their ending. In every system, there are heartbreaks and bad outcomes. But ascribing deliberate malice, using loaded words, such as "bullying", and "hazing" is going too far in my opinion. Most people agree this particular system is flawed, but even if changed there will still be girls who go bidless or feel hurt, and sororities still have the right to invite, not invite, and rank and select members according to their own reasons.

I would be interested in knowing how many of the bidless women maximized their options and how many left off one or more chnpters from their final card. Maybe none, but I suspect more than a few.

It was striking to me how much all of the new members looked alike....really, really, alike.

My daughter completely maximized. She wanted to leave nothing to chance except of course the numbers game. And yes all look alike picture after picture

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by Katmandu

In no greek system except for one, do all women who register have happy outcomes or self determine their ending. In every system, there are heartbreaks and bad outcomes. But ascribing deliberate malice, using loaded words, such as "bullying", and "hazing" is going too far in my opinion. Most people agree this particular system is flawed, but even if changed there will still be girls who go bidless or feel hurt, and sororities still have the right to invite, not invite, and rank and select members according to their own reasons.

I would be interested in knowing how many of the bidless women maximized their options and how many left off one or more chnpters from their final card. Maybe none, but I suspect more than a few.

It was striking to me how much all of the new members looked alike....really, really, alike.

Sure. But Indiana is only placing about 60% of the women who start the process, and IU is dropping a bunch of them after pref. University of Illinois places around 97% of the women who go all the way through and don't drop out. There was a really great webpage that listed how many women were dropped at U of I, but the school deleted it. Very few women at University of Illinois are dropped completely. Quite a few quit because they don't like their options, though, but that is on them.

I think guaranteeing a bid to women who maximize their options and are invited to pref would take a lot of heat off IU sororities.

If the IU sororities are worried about spaced, space could be created by asking for volunteers to live-out (seniors first, then juniors). Not everybody loves living in a house. I loved being in a sorority. I loved hanging out at the house. I didn't really love living in the house. If there aren't enough volunteers, the House Corp. or the chapter can prioritize who lives in. There are lots of ways to do that. Ie. all elected officers have to live in. After that, each pledge class chooses to live in or out based on initiation order or GPA or a random draw. It's honestly not a big deal.