School Shooting Newtown CT

[badgeguy]

"Those who do not learn from the past, are doomed to repeat it!"

Ive researched this and know its not the exact quote from George Santanya, but it definitely fits this situation.

Regardsless of the laws, and creator given rights, evil is evil and the biggest question no one had been able to answer yet is Why? Why did this person at this time decide to do what they did?

The bad part is that in this case we will never know for sure as the guy killed himself and so anything the investigators find is purely conjecture, and speculative.

[I Phi 1963]

I don't even know why this discussion went past 10 posts. Dude is a piece of shit who shot up some kids. Unfortunately, this dumb shit will happen again, probably in less than a year. Are they going to change the gun laws? No, because there is too much money involved, and if they did, all that would do is make it more difficult for folks like you and me who want to protect their cribs, to get the guns. The criminals are going to get the guns regardless. What they need to do is make the laws (as far as punishment goes) more harsh. Fuck a mental institution, start putting mofos out of their misery.

[TonyB06]

[QUOTE=badgeguy;2194135Regardsless of the laws, and creator given rights, evil is evil and the biggest question no one had been able to answer yet is Why? Why did this person at this time decide to do what they did?

The bad part is that in this case we will never know for sure as the guy killed himself and so anything the investigators find is purely conjecture, and speculative.[/QUOTE]

You're right. The closest we can get is the sad acceptance that at some time we will observe the raw face of evil.

I've read the thread and agree that more has to be done -- we've seen four of these types of atrocites in 2012 alone. That's enough of a pattern for me.

The problem is probably more on the mental health side, but it's the guns that escalate the carnage.

So what to do? Personally, I don't think assault-style weapons should be allowed outside the military.

-renew assault weapons ban
-close gun show loopholes
-limit/eliminate high capacity automatic clips.

let's start with that.

[adpimiz]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

You're right. The closest we can get is the sad acceptance that at some time we will observe the raw face of evil.

I've read the thread and agree that more has to be done -- we've seen four of these types of atrocites in 2012 alone. That's enough of a pattern for me.

The problem is probably more on the mental health side, but it's the guns that escalate the carnage.

So what to do? Personally, I don't think assault-style weapons should be allowed outside the military.

-renew assault weapons ban
-close gun show loopholes
-limit/eliminate high capacity automatic clips.

let's start with that.

I'm not saying I disagree, but what about criminals obtaining weapons on the black market? You can't stop that.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by adpimiz

I'm not saying I disagree, but what about criminals obtaining weapons on the black market? You can't stop that.

I agree with you. Law enforcement will always have to be on the front lines of this multi-faceted attack.

But logic suggests that some % of black market acquisitions were originally legally purchased (and later stolen, lost, etc.). If we can find ways lessen the numbers of these types of weapons that exist, we lessen the numbers that fall into black market circulation/use.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

<snip>

The problem is probably more on the mental health side, but it's the guns that escalate the carnage.

So what to do? Personally, I don't think assault-style weapons should be allowed outside the military.

-renew assault weapons ban
-close gun show loopholes
-limit/eliminate high capacity automatic clips.

let's start with that.

The "assault" weapon differs from a hunting rifle in looks only. Add a pistol grip to make the firearm easier to control (accuracy is not good?) or a carbon-fiber black stock instead of old-growth walnut, and there you have it. In fact, the "assault" weapon designated AR-15 is illegal for hunting in my state - because it's not considered powerful enough.

There is no such thing as a gun show loophole. NOTHING is legal at a gun show that is not legal in my living room. And I'll be happy to take you to gun shows where I can show you the "unlicensed" dealers. Only problem is, "unlicensed dealers" are NOT selling firearms.

Automatic weapons are already highly regulated. They require additional permissions from law-enforcement agencies, a tax stamp, and permission from BATFE. Therefore, the "clips" you refer to are useless without the highly regulated firearm to go with it.

So while I appreciate that you're trying to put forth solutions, in fact, none of these are solutions.

[CutiePie2000]

Question for the Americans with elementary school age kids in your lives (as I live in Canada and I haven't been inside an elementary school in a while)

I've read on some news stories that the gunman "broke into" the school; I'm not sure that I understand "broke into".

Every elementary school that I know of (i.e. here in Canada), yes, visitors have to "report" to the office, but unless the office is "right there" at the front entrance, someone could stroll into the unlocked front entrance & easily bypass the office and wander around the place until someone inquired, "May I help you?"

Are American elementary schools generally kept "locked"? (In particular, the front entrance?)

Please explain / advise.

[glittergal1985]

In many towns around me, school doors are automatically locked once the bell rings for classes to begin. I believe in the case of Sandy Hook, the gunman shot his way through the glass of the locked front doors of the school building in order to enter.

[AXOmom]

Been a while since I've stopped by, but since I teach at an elementary school (K-8 charter) I've been reading most of the discussions on this topic in various forums I frequent.

CutiePie2000 - I can only speak for the schools where I've taught, had children attend, or visited - none were locked (well except for the juvenile detention facility where I taught - it obviously was and MAYBE an alternative school where I taught - I can't remember for sure on it). You could walk into any of them and while you were supposed to check into the office - at the bigger schools (primarily high schools) this rarely happened.

After several school shootings in the past (as a sad aside - I graudated from Columbine and student taught at Thurston HS), most schools talked about heightened security and for a while many did lock up and get stricter about checking in at the office, issuing visitor passes etc., but as with most things like this-as time goes by and people calm down - they get sloppy. Sandy Hook actually was locked and you had to show ID and buzz to get in - several stations noted this was unusual particularly for that area. This is why they said he broke in.

This week we started locking down our school again which has presented some challenges with our aftercare program which I also oversee. It's worth it to feel somewhat secure; it's also led to a lot of questions from the kids who are, of course, wondering about why we are suddenly changing procedures. They notice any little change in their routine.


**** A little off the subject but a point of clarification- A poster mentioned why trust teachers with guns if they don't trust us to unionize - Not that I want a gun, but we do, in fact, have unions in every state that I'm aware of and a strong national union.

[AlphaFrog]

My children's elementary school is not locked, and when.I stopped in on Wednesday, it was business as usual.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

**** A little off the subject but a point of clarification- A poster mentioned why trust teachers with guns if they don't trust us to unionize - Not that I want a gun, but we do, in fact, have unions in every state that I'm aware of and a strong national union.

Continuing the side track just a bit, but in my state collective bargaining is (and always has been) prohibited for public employees, including teachers. The state organization affiliated with the NEA operates as a professional association.

Originally Posted by adpimiz

The schools in my hometown have had police there all week just in case because of the risk of "copycat" incidents. Not a bad idea.

I think I said this upthread, but where I live, all middle and high schools have at least one law enforcement officer in them. They're there not just for security in case of incidents like this, but also for drugs, violence from students, etc.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

Question for the Americans with elementary school age kids in your lives (as I live in Canada and I haven't been inside an elementary school in a while)

I've read on some news stories that the gunman "broke into" the school; I'm not sure that I understand "broke into".

Every elementary school that I know of (i.e. here in Canada), yes, visitors have to "report" to the office, but unless the office is "right there" at the front entrance, someone could stroll into the unlocked front entrance & easily bypass the office and wander around the place until someone inquired, "May I help you?"

Are American elementary schools generally kept "locked"? (In particular, the front entrance?)

Please explain / advise.

The doors at the school are locked at 9:30. All visitors must be buzzed in. The perpetrator (I will not give him the respect of using his name) buzzed the door and was refused. He then shot a glass door and climbed through the hole.

The noise of the shots is what brought several administrators to the hallway where he shot them.