E-Mails Suggest Paterno Role in Silence on Sandusky

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

I understand it is special to all of you and you are just trying to get that across and you don't mean it to sound this way, but it comes across as a little insulting and provincial.

It's Pennsylvania. We are provincial. We admit it. That's life. We go to our $100k a year jobs with Steeler jackets worn on top of our suits (because that's your good winter coat.)

Will everyone stop jumping down ASTAlumna06's throat if she qualifies her statements with "In the Northeast"?

So, basically what everyone else is trying to say is that the same scandal could happen at LSU, or Bama, or Illinois?

As far as the WVU example, sorry, it's just not the same. The state's about a tenth of the size.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by 33girl

So, basically what everyone else is trying to say is that the same scandal could happen at LSU, or Bama, or Illinois?

Unfortunately, yes - the same set of conditions exist, or could exist, at many big schools where power lies in people whose interests align with things only tangential to the University's values (ie "winning football games").

This is why DrPhil has tried to make this about more than Penn State.

[AXOmom]

Originally Posted by 33girl

It's Pennsylvania. We are provincial. We admit it. That's life. We go to our $100k a year jobs with Steeler jackets worn on top of our suits (because that's your good winter coat.)

Will everyone stop jumping down ASTAlumna06's throat if she qualifies her statements with "In the Northeast"?

So, basically what everyone else is trying to say is that the same scandal could happen at LSU, or Bama, or Illinois?

As far as the WVU example, sorry, it's just not the same. The state's about a tenth of the size.

First off I didn't say Pennsylvania was provincial - I said what several of you said sounded provincial. I should have clarified what I meant by that - I mean in the sense that the word means narrow or lacking broadmindedness. In this same sense people in my state are often make statements that sound provincial - I personally don't consider that an acceptable thing. I hope it's something we strive to change.

Instead I would hope that if many pointed out to us a particular situation we believe is unique to us really isn't and we should broaden our horizons a bit before drawing that conclusion - we would consider that our previous assumptions might be incorrect and adjust them.


I don't see any place where I "jumped down" ASTalumna06's throat, and if she feels that I did, I want to apologize to her. That wasn't my intent. I don't see anything I wrote that could be read that way. I disagreed with her, but I tried to make every effort to be polite in doing so.


She said she grew up in the northeast and she stated that the type of relationship between Pennsylvania and Penn State doesn't exist there. That I understood, and I stated that I could see where that would be the case. All I suggested was this probably explained why the situation in Pennsylvania seemed unique to her, but if she had spent time in another part of the country she probably wouldn't find that to be the case, and she should probably do that before making the assumption that it is a unique situation.


I don't see what West Virginia's size or the size of any other state mentioned as a comparison has to do with this. In the context of explaining why Pennsylvania is uniquely focused on Penn State, you asserted that it was partially due to Pennsylvania's poor economy and a need to focus on the one good thing they had going for them. I simply pointed out that the same circumstances exists in West Virginia and has for a much longer period of time and to a much greater degree, so that situation also isn't unique to Pennsylvania. I'm not seeing how size is relevant to that. Could you explain?

Again, my intention isn't to offend you or any of the other posters from Pennsylvania. For me, I simply want you to allow for the possibility that a school whose characteristics and relationship to its state seem so unique to you - aren't as unique and unusual as you believe them to be.

So now I've clearly used up my quota on the word unique for the year, I'll conclude my little treatise.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by 33girl

As far as the WVU example, sorry, it's just not the same. The state's about a tenth of the size.

As a proud Pitt alumna, I hate WVU just slightly more than I hate Penn State.

[AXOmom]

Originally Posted by agzg

As a proud Pitt alumna, I hate WVU just slightly more than I hate Penn State.

Yeah, well we hate you more! . At some point we'll have to move this over to the college football thread and discuss the ironies of Rich Rod and Graham ending up at Arizona and Arizona State (I know - they didn't coach at WVU and Pitt at the same time - still).

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I didn't even know that people were into college sports who didn't attend the school or have at least a family member who did until I moved to Idaho. I then became aware of some team at a JC in Boise with the same colors of a Kraft macaroni and cheese box and the same logo as a football team in Denver.

I'll thank you NOT to use my beloved DENVER Broncos and that other team in the same sentence. .
****
And back on a serious note - I think Jerry Sandusky and the abuse could happen anywhere and does. That issue isn't at all about Penn State.

I think the cover up by Paterno and the administrators COULD happen at other places when and if people at those places start believing that their group is special and set apart in such a way that the rules and the consequences of those rules don't apply to them. I don't think any of the posters here believe that- I just think that some (not all) of the "things are different here" views expressed are probably less extreme versions of what Joe Paterno and the Penn State administration (or some of them) believed at some level that caused them to think they could and should cover some things up.

And now I've also used up my quota on the word some.

[DrPhil]

This has now become a braggadocious insistence that Penn State is so whatever that this could only happen there. Okay, Penn State enthusiasts and sympathizers, this is all about Penn State. You all can have this shit. Good fucking grief.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This has now become a braggadocious insistence that Penn State is so whatever that this could only happen there. Okay, Penn State enthusiasts and sympathizers, this is all about Penn State. You all can have this shit. Good fucking grief.

They just keep missing the point. And, I don't think it would have happened the same way at LSU as it did at PSU. Les Miles can't shit without someone second guessing him. Don't get me wrong, LSU may be hiding other things, but no one would stand behind Miles for this. It takes an environment like the one fostered with Paterno as the law of the land with no checks or balances for so many years. Miles had no hand in picking the AD, President or Chancellor at LSU. Their jobs aren't riding on Miles' approval. I have no doubt that Les Miles would be driven out of town by a mob, and that I can guarantee given the mobs that form when he dares to lose a football game.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by thewasher418

May I introduce you to my home state (Louisiana), where people who have NEVER SET FOOT in Baton Rouge, never went to ANY college or went to another one (like I did), live and breathe LSU football. This is not unique.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I didn't know you were from LA! Amen! LSU is Mecca no matter where you went to school or even I'd you didn't (which applies to most people) and is one of the ties that binds the citizens of the state.

I didn't even know that people were into college sports who didn't attend the school or have at least a family member who did until I moved to Idaho. I then became aware of some team at a JC in Boise with the same colors of a Kraft macaroni and cheese box and the same logo as a football team in Denver.

Don't most big football schools have the capability to not only have a scandal and cover it up? In most cases it involves the actual players and coaches and not outsiders, let alone children. I think that this affects reactions and attitudes because unlike grades/academics, rape, drugs, and money/gifting, most people don't have gray areas when it comes to child molestation and covering it up.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I didn't even know that people were into college sports who didn't attend the school or have at least a family member who did until I moved to Idaho. I then became aware of some team at a JC in Boise with the same colors of a Kraft macaroni and cheese box and the same logo as a football team in Denver.

Don't most big football schools have the capability to not only have a scandal and cover it up? In most cases it involves the actual players and coaches and not outsiders, let alone children. I think that this affects reactions and attitudes because unlike grades/academics, rape, drugs, and money/gifting, most people don't have gray areas when it comes to child molestation and covering it up.

This I think is very true. What happened at PSU took some special Kool-aid that everyone must be on guard to prevent. Checks and balances are important. No one should be THAT important. How to fix the other problems? Pay players what they deserve? Ban NFL scouts and sports agents from college campuses? Hold coaches personally responsible for their players misdeeds? No college program is squeaky clean. Supposedly they are rewriting the rule book so we'll see.

As for areas that take college football seriously, it usually happens where pro-football isn't as dominant. I guarantee that throughout the SEC the fan base is more non-alum, state resident than actually comprised of alumni.