Gunman Opens Fire During "The Dark Knight Rises"

[Jeff OTMG]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

But I do have a problem when, in the wake of an incident such as this, we start hearing claims that if only concealed weapons were allowed/allowed more freely/carried more widely, someone could have prevented this or stopped it sooner. Maybe or maybe not. That person with the concealed weapon mIight have helped or they might have made things worse. They're so many variables that I think it's impossible and unrealistic to simply assume a better outcome.

You bring up an interesting point. We cannot know without a doubt that the presence of a concealed permit holder would have changed the outcome. What we can do it look at where it DID make a difference or might have.
1. In 1991 Dr. Suzanna Gratia Hupp, a great lady that I have had the opportunity to meet, was in a Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, TX when someone drove into the restaurant and killed the people dining there, including her parents. Dr Gratia-Hupp had left her firearm in her car due to Texas law at the time. She was not given the chance to defend her parents. Would it have made a difference? We will never know.
2. It did make a difference in Austin, TX in 1966 when a shooter went to the top of the tower on the university campus and began shooting people. 16 people were killed that day, but the count would have been higher had the people of Austin not taken up arms and began shooting back to keep the shooter's head down. It was three police officers and one armed private citizen who assaulted the tower and killed the shooter. This was the event that was the impetus that created SWAT teams across the US.
3. It did make a difference at Pearl High School in Pearl, MS. In 1997 a student walked into school and killed two students after having killed his mother at home, but the assistant principal retrieved a .45 auto pistol from his car and subdued the shooter, holding him for police.
4. It did make a difference in 2002 at Appalachian School of Law. Three people were killed when a former law student went to the campus and started shooting. When he came out of the building there were two armed private citizens who had gone to their cars to retrieve their guns. The shooter surrendered.
5. It did make a difference in the town square in Tyler, TX in 2005 when the shooter opened fire on his son and ex-wife. His ex-wife was killed as was a concealed permit holder who was credited for slowing and distracting the shooter by his intervention until police could arrive in force.
6. I saved my girlfriend from an abduction in progress at a gas stop while we were returning from a trip for Thanksgiving in 1989. Five people were dragging her to their car, but when they saw me approaching with a firearm they left before I could close the gap enough to shoot them accurately.
In only one of these situations were shots fired by the licensed citizen, but their presence lowered the casulty rate considerably.

So although we cannot predict what would have happened with certainty, we can look at past similar situations and may venture a hypothesis that it probably would have reduced the casulty count as it had in the past.

[sigmagirl2000]

Originally Posted by Jeff OTMG

3. It did make a difference at Pearl High School in Pearl, MS. In 1997 a student walked into school and killed two students after having killed his mother at home, but the assistant principal retrieved a .45 auto pistol from his car and subdued the shooter, holding him for police.

I understand that especially in different areas of the country and in different political areas, that gun presence and acceptance may be different, but there is no reason for school staff be it administrators, teachers, paraprofessionals, secretaries, custodians, etc. to have a firearm on property of the building. There are procedures in place, or there should be, especially after Columbine, to lock down schools for such situations without school faculty drawing weapons with the possibility of injuring coworkers or students.

[Jeff OTMG]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000

I understand that especially in different areas of the country and in different political areas, that gun presence and acceptance may be different, but there is no reason for school staff be it administrators, teachers, paraprofessionals, secretaries, custodians, etc. to have a firearm on property of the building. There are procedures in place, or there should be, especially after Columbine, to lock down schools for such situations without school faculty drawing weapons with the possibility of injuring coworkers or students.

It doesn't do any good to lock the doors after the cow gets out. Shooters generally pick 'gun free zones' to do the shootings. You don't ever hear of a robbery at a gun show and I only know of one that was attempted at a gun store. It did not go well for the robber. It is legal in Texas for a teacher to carry a firearm at school after meeting certain criteria. The Flight Deck Officers Program for airline pilots is going very well allowing airline pilots to carry a gun while flying commercial airliners. Teachers in Thailand and Israel have carried firearms to protect the students for decades.

Having armed good guys around is a tremendously effective deterrent against bad guys. It is what the police do only we don't wear a uniform so nobody knows who has a gun. Frankly I am amazed that nobody in the theater was armed. I have been to a movie with friends and there were seven of us in one row that were armed.