Not Religious and Interested in Fraternity Recruitment

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I agree with DubaisSis. Unfortunately, fraternities are much harder to read than sororities. We have to play on a pretty even field with recruitment so we're fairly transparent on this. I think it is pretty hard to figure out which fraternities are accepting. Really, now one wears their religion on a sign on their chest, and to assume that some one is Hindu or Buddhist is kinda profiling. You might be wrong. I remember a poster on GC saying ATO had a big agenda to turn out strong Christian men, so I think you can add that to your list of Christian orgs. Even in organizations that are welcoming, things can be difficult. I pledged with a Laotian girl who was Buddhist. I found out later that one of our Catholic members threw a fit that she was getting initiated because she couldn't understand ritual as a Buddhist. We were in the South. That little Buddhist is a great AOII, and for spite, she recruited her sister to join her in the chapter so we could have two! Oh the horror!

I've mentioned this before, but Buddhism and Christianity are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It would be a rarity, but you could be a Buddhist Catholic.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I've mentioned this before, but Buddhism and Christianity are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It would be a rarity, but you could be a Buddhist Catholic.

Jew-Bus are quite common. So much so that we have a slang term for them.

It sounds like the OP is at a school with formal fraternity rush, and while he doesn't want to be "that guy", it sounds like he will have to at least hint at the issue. Do the fraternities themselves mention it? It seems like they should, but I don't know if that is common (whereas I think it is fairly common for certain NPC groups to talk religion by round three, where applicable).

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Jew-Bus are quite common. So much so that we have a slang term for them.

iLaughed.

Here's one thought: Don't look at national websites for non-discrimination policies. I assume everyone has them, and I agree that doesn't really seem to be the issue here. Look online for the pledge manuals of the fraternities on your campus -- quite a few fraternities have them online now. Most manuals, I think, will have a section on ritual, and there may be some clues, or maybe even a direct statement, there.

Also, the pledging ceremonies (though some fraternities may not call them that) of some fraternities are open, and some of them can be found online. They may also give some indication.

[jazing]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

iLaughed.

Here's one thought: Don't look at national websites for non-discrimination policies. I assume everyone has them, and I agree that doesn't really seem to be the issue here. Look online for the pledge manuals of the fraternities on your campus -- quite a few fraternities have them online now. Most manuals, I think, will have a section on ritual, and there may be some clues, or maybe even a direct statement, there.

Also, the pledging ceremonies (though some fraternities may not call them that) of some fraternities are open, and some of them can be found online. They may also give some indication.

I'll tell you right now that while organizations have that clause, it doesn't mean each individual chapter feels that way.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by jazing

I'll tell you right now that while organizations have that clause, it doesn't mean each individual chapter feels that way.

Right.

And it doesn't really get to the OP's concern:

Originally Posted by Lilgiant2016

On one hand I see non-discrimination policies, yet many reference God in mottos or creeds. Please understand that I don't in any way disrespect anothers' beliefs but feel it would be a waste of their time to rush them if there is no way I can, in good conscience be a member. In no way do I want to know initiation secrets, but rather, would I be able to take the oath at FIJI or Beta for example without lying, as I will not compromise on a lifetime commitment.

[naraht]

I"m presuming that you aren't considering any groups with Christian in their full name. Other than that, the only ones that I'm familiar with that require belief are Kappa Sigma (which has already been mentioned in the thread) and Omega Psi Phi (which I'm guessing isn't a group in the Formal Rush, being NPHC).

I'd like to add the suggestion to check with National Fraternity websites. My service fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega, for example includes in the National Pledging Standards "Pledges should be made aware that the Official Fraternity Initiation Ritual contains references to God and a dedication invoking the name of “Our Common God”.", however religious belief is not required...

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I've mentioned this before, but Buddhism and Christianity are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It would be a rarity, but you could be a Buddhist Catholic.

Of course not, but for some Christians who are looking at others it is. The whole point of my story is that each chapter may have a different level of acceptance of "different." in the South and other parts of the Bible belt, being openly agnostic/atheist, even in chapters that don't require a profession of faith may not be accepted.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by jazing

I'll tell you right now that while organizations have that clause, it doesn't mean each individual chapter feels that way.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Of course not, but for some Christians who are looking at others it is. The whole point of my story is that each chapter may have a different level of acceptance of "different." in the South and other parts of the Bible belt, being openly agnostic/atheist, even in chapters that don't require a profession of faith may not be accepted.

Again, this isn't an issue of the brothers accepting him/giving him a bid or not. It's an issue of he doesn't want to take an oath he doesn't agree with. Even if the fraternity whose official aim includes turning out "upright Christian men" has zero members who go to church, he'll still need to take vows and oaths that conflict with his beliefs.

[Lilgiant2016]

You are right 33girl. I am not worried yet about getting a bid or not. That will depend on whether or not I get along with the people in fraternites, and I am trying not to worry about that until closer to college.

I did text someone from the college and the groups that I see myself in the most right now seem to be okay with non-religious members. He assured me that his organization wouldn't have a problem with me. It is good to know that I will have options.

Thank you for those that respect my desire to not betray my values during pledgeship. I am taking this seriously so I want to give the fraternities the best of me. I now feel more confident about bringing it up casually.

[AOII Angel]

I understand the issue of not wanting to take an oath when you don't believe in the underlying God, but you can't really divorce that from the acceptance of atheism/agnosticism by members of the groups you are hoping to join. You'll never make it to the point of making said oath if the people standing between you and the oath are repulsed by the idea of atheists/agnostics. I use the term repulsed because a recent survey of americans showed that people ranked atheists with rapists on level of trustworthiness, which just shows that average religious people do NOT understand those with different beliefs than their own.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ts-we-distrust

[Lilgiant2016]

The school that I am going to attend is known for being fairly intellectual and there is a good religion department. It is also known for healthy debate and it is known for having a libertarian spirit.
In my short time I was there, I met a few people in fraternities that were not all Christian, and at my favorite fraternity, I know that at least two members consider themselves to be atheist/agnostic/humanist as well. They were more of the scientific skeptic type (like me) than the political ban the national anthem type. I see myself fitting in there. I am just not assuming that my current favorite group will give me a bid, or that I won't connect with some other group better, which is why I asked the question. It is true that a lot of people distrust "my kind" but I am not going to hide who I am for anyone, especially when my actions do not hurt anyone or break any laws. I have many Christian friends, and am considered to be one of the most moral members of the bunch. I am a great friend, loyal and thoughtful so I think I would be a good brother. I am a little worried that not everyone will get to know me and pass judgement on me, but those that do will see that I don't mean any harm when I say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Stevester

They assured me, "just take the oath; nobody really takes it seriously."


It's also worth mentioning that KS's ritual requires a somewhat gruesome death penalty for certain offenses. I'm pretty sure that nobody in my chapter took that part of it seriously either, although I suppose you can never tell ...

The first part is a fundamental problem if true. And as for the second, I would hope they would take them seriously, which is not to say necessarily literally.

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I've mentioned this before, but Buddhism and Christianity are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It would be a rarity, but you could be a Buddhist Catholic.

They're called Jesuits.

[Lilgiant2016]

Although I don't want to give too many details, I did join a fraternity and am going through pledgeship right now. Thank you all for your advice and support. I was honest with everyone and it turned out to not be a big deal at all.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Lilgiant2016

Although I don't want to give too many details, I did join a fraternity and am going through pledgeship right now. Thank you all for your advice and support. I was honest with everyone and it turned out to not be a big deal at all.

That is wonderful. I'm betting you'll be a great brother. Good luck with the rest of your pledgeship and have fun!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Lilgiant2016

Although I don't want to give too many details, I did join a fraternity and am going through pledgeship right now. Thank you all for your advice and support. I was honest with everyone and it turned out to not be a big deal at all.

Congrats! I hope that you feel more comfortable telling us the fraternity after you initiate!