The Murder of Trayvon Martin

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

True, but if a lanky 13 year old walked past me, my first instinct would not be "kill it with fire"

But, as you and others have stated, hopefully all of this will get sorted out with the investigation(s).

Martin was 17.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Martin was 17.

I thought Zimmerman was older, so I was referring to the "half my age" thing I said earlier. I didn't realize he was only 28.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I thought Zimmerman was older, so I was referring to the "half my age" thing I said earlier. I didn't realize he was only 28.

... which is additional evidence of Zimmerman's capabilities and strength, given 28 is the in the middle of one's physical prime.

He claims to have lost significant weight from his previous booking measurements of around 5'9-5'10 and 230 lbs, which would indicate exercise and (workout) training. Additionally, those with the inclination toward a neighborhood watch (including following a 'suspect' and potentially engaging that person, as is clear was Zimmerman's intent) would or should likely put themselves in a physical condition where they shouldn't be easily overpowered.

If you think a string-bean 17 year old could easily overpower somebody of that description, I'm fine with that. However, Zimmerman's actions and apparent lifestyle don't jibe with the story promoted through his family nor with the need to 'enhance' video to see his injuries.

That obviously doesn't mean he did or did not feel he was in actual and imminent danger. There are a lot of unanswered questions, and not a lot of ways to answer them.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

He claims to have lost significant weight from his previous booking measurements of around 5'9-5'10 and 230 lbs, which would indicate exercise and (workout) training.

Having represented a fair number of folks facing time, especially those who haven't done time before, the prospect of incarceration hanging over one's head tends to be enough to cause significant stress-related weight loss. Considering Zimmerman's situation, the stress combined with the fact that if he's recognized by someone on the street, he might be killed, gives him a really good reason to lose weight.

Additionally, those with the inclination toward a neighborhood watch (including following a 'suspect' and potentially engaging that person, as is clear was Zimmerman's intent) would or should likely put themselves in a physical condition where they shouldn't be easily overpowered.

That assumes an awful lot. While we know Zimmerman pursued against the advice of the 911 operator, we don't know that he confronted or engaged at any time, do we?

If you think a string-bean 17 year old could easily overpower somebody of that description, I'm fine with that. However, Zimmerman's actions and apparent lifestyle don't jibe with the story promoted through his family nor with the need to 'enhance' video to see his injuries.

Zimmerman's surrogates didn't enhance the video (whatever that means). Fox did. Even if false, it couldn't be any worse than the NBC editors who edited the 911 call to cast Zimmerman in a false light.

That obviously doesn't mean he did or did not feel he was in actual and imminent danger. There are a lot of unanswered questions, and not a lot of ways to answer them.

Right and the state will have to prove that he could not have reasonably thought he was in danger of death or serious bodily injury. It's also likely true that Martin likely would have been privileged to use deadly force as well. If I'm a gun manufacturer, that's a pretty good marketing strategy.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Having represented a fair number of folks facing time, especially those who haven't done time before, the prospect of incarceration hanging over one's head tends to be enough to cause significant stress-related weight loss. Considering Zimmerman's situation, the stress combined with the fact that if he's recognized by someone on the street, he might be killed, gives him a really good reason to lose weight.

That's absolutely not how it's been portrayed by the Zimmerman camp, at least in my reading - he also could have cut the fat out with his own hunting knife, but why deal with anything other than Occam's Razor?

The point of stating he doesn't weigh 230 (or whatever was his booking weight) was that he didn't have a "100lb advantage" as some initially latched onto. The Zimmerman camp simply didn't realize that advertising weight loss isn't an explicitly 'good' thing - after all, getting more fit doesn't make you less likely to win a fight.

That assumes an awful lot. While we know Zimmerman pursued against the advice of the 911 operator, we don't know that he confronted or engaged at any time, do we?

By pursuing, he engaged - I didn't mean to imply anything about starting a fight, only that he chose to pursue (with the expressed intent to confront - "they always get away").

Zimmerman's surrogates didn't enhance the video (whatever that means). Fox did. Even if false, it couldn't be any worse than the NBC editors who edited the 911 call to cast Zimmerman in a false light.

What a bizarre, non sequitur response (the NBC part - which was indeed despicable) - I meant that the injuries were not obvious in the original footage, as they might be expected to be in the instance where they were dreadful, scared-for-your-life-type injuries. (That doesn't mean the injuries were NOT that type - just that it's far from conclusive, or even indicative)

Right and the state will have to prove that he could not have reasonably thought he was in danger of death or serious bodily injury. It's also likely true that Martin likely would have been privileged to use deadly force as well. If I'm a gun manufacturer, that's a pretty good marketing strategy.

Thanks for the quick lesson on how the case will be tried

I agree mostly with the latter part though, and am fascinated with the jury's determination (WEIRD HUH).

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Understood.

Now, there's no mention of his role on the football team (he could've been JV or 3rd string kicker, for all we know), so all the talk (not on this site) making him out to be a brick wall with cat-like reflexes may not be true.

The reports I've seen say that Trayvon was ~6'0" and ~150-160 pounds. Zimmerman is listed as being ~5'9" and ~240 pounds. If you don't think you can defend yourself (against someone smaller than you, no less), then 1) don't volunteer to be the sole neighborhood watchman in a community with an increasing crime rate and 2) don't pursue someone who you think could take you down.

(Ditto with your disclaimer, since we're all speculating )

Agreed

[SWTXBelle]

No grand jury:

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/...s_charged.html

"Now that Corey has decided against using a grand jury, the decision on whether to charge Zimmerman is hers alone. According to the AP, Florida law requires the use of grand juries in first-degree murder cases, but not for lesser charges."