Should we change the way PNMs think of Recruitment?

[33girl]

Just to touch on one of melindawarren's comments, I think that the concept of a girl not being a fit for a chapter specifically, but not being a fit for the school IN GENERAL happens a lot more than people realize. If you've busted your butt getting into your "dream school" and get there and it doesn't feel right, it might be easier to blame it on a bad rush result.

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Just to touch on one of melindawarren's comments, I think that the concept of a girl not being a fit for a chapter specifically, but not being a fit for the school IN GENERAL happens a lot more than people realize. If you've busted your butt getting into your "dream school" and get there and it doesn't feel right, it might be easier to blame it on a bad rush result.

Ooh, this made me think. Sometimes I think going through rush at a school you're iffy on is like having a baby to make a relationship work-you're committing yourself to something much more permanent and odds are the inevitable "breakup", so to speak, will be much messier than if you'd separated sooner. Few things evoke more sympathy from me than a student going through recruitment at a school they may not stay at, getting a bid and getting initiated, then transferring to a place with no chapter and being completely disconnected from the undergraduate Greek experience around them.

[1964Alum]

It is important for EVERY PNM to remember, starting before recruitment even begins, that it is the sororities that give the invitations to each and every party, not the PNM! It doesn't matter how much in demand you might be. Or think you might be. What DOES matter is that you remain humble and appreciative of every invitation you get. As my grandmother used to say, "Asking makes a difference!"

[SWTXBelle]

Ah, but if you are in a sorority, you are attending large classes - with your sisters, or with the support of your sisters. You still have to navigate a campus bigger than your hometown - with the help of your sisters. You might hate your major- but you have sisters to commiserate with you. In a way, you ARE "doing sorority" 24/7. You don't get to avoid possible negative experiences - but you get to go through them with the help, support, and knowledge of your chapter.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Ah, but if you are in a sorority, you are attending large classes - with your sisters, or with the support of your sisters. You still have to navigate a campus bigger than your hometown - with the help of your sisters. You might hate your major- but you have sisters to commiserate with you. In a way, you ARE "doing sorority" 24/7. You don't get to avoid possible negative experiences - but you get to go through them with the help, support, and knowledge of your chapter.

Oh good, I can finish my thought

Yes, sisters help lessen the bad experiences, but the things I mentioned AREN’T “bad” experiences, they’re just things that are. If you keep saying “well I hate the huge classes (or its flipside, how tiny this school is)/my major/the climate/the surrounding town, but my sorority is 100% awesome!” - I mean, how many things does your GLO have to help you put up with? How much freight does it have to carry? Maybe sometimes it is just getting used to a new environment, but a lot of times that school is just NOT for you.

I would hate to feel “trapped” in a school that I otherwise hated simply because of my devotion to my sisters.

[FSUZeta]

Hear, hear!

[carnation]

Let's bump this one for 2019! There's some good debating in it.

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by Jen

They do seem to feel as if they have more of a choice than they do, and in many cases it's detrimental when they keep seeing a house they "cut" show up on their schedule.

I think the explanations need to be improved so PNMs aren't getting an skewed sense of where the "power" lies when it comes to choosing. It's only mutual when you have more invites than you can accept.

Yes thats what I was trying to get at. You did a better job explaining my thoughts! If only I always had you to translate myself to my classmates :-)

[carnation]

I agree but I fear that political correctness--i.e., not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings--will keep Panhellenic Councils from doing this. I really wish that they would be blunter about it, especially at highly competitive schools.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

I agree but I fear that political correctness--i.e., not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings--will keep Panhellenic Councils from doing this. I really wish that they would be blunter about it, especially at highly competitive schools.

Absolutely. This is the same ridiculousness that keeps college Panhellenics from being able to say "you don't have a snowball's chance in hell if you don't have recs/know people from Foofoo High/go to Roundup etc." Which is stupid, because the TRULY politically correct thing to do would be to make sure EVERYONE is informed of this, not just the "old girl network" who knows you have to have recs/Foofoo/Roundup etc - and who therefore keeps tight rein on the membership of the groups.

And if this means that chapters at less competitive schools get recs that they really don't need, well, that's not that big of a deal. Seriously.

[28StGreek]

Thank you everyone for the good discussion. Especially to learn about how recruitment used to be structured

Originally Posted by 33girl

Absolutely. This is the same ridiculousness that keeps college Panhellenics from being able to say "you don't have a snowball's chance in hell if you don't have recs/know people from Foofoo High/go to Roundup etc." Which is stupid, because the TRULY politically correct thing to do would be to make sure EVERYONE is informed of this, not just the "old girl network" who knows you have to have recs/Foofoo/Roundup etc - and who therefore keeps tight rein on the membership of the groups.

And if this means that chapters at less competitive schools get recs that they really don't need, well, that's not that big of a deal. Seriously.

Is it really 'mean' and 'politically incorrect' to remind the PNMs that while their preferences are taken into account, not to forget that their preferences only are considered AFTER the Chapters have have made their selections of who to invite back to the next day?

[carnation]

There are many of us who desperately wish that NPC would tell the schools to be upfront about that. Every year, we watch these girls go off to the SEC schools saying that they're only "rushing for" certain groups and then the debacle begins after second parties.

[WCsweet<3]

Originally Posted by Jen

I actually liked how it worked in the past. When I went through, I was told all of my invites and had to choose between them if there was more than there were parties - so I got the experience of having to cut a group or two. I also could hear and see straight up that a group I liked didn't invite me back. There was some transparency there that appealed to me.

Now that happens automatically because of the rankings done after parties, so even if they DO have to cut, they never participate in it in the moment because it's already been done. I definitely see the benefit to having it done so automatically now (a definite time saver), but I think the explanations need to be improved so PNMs aren't getting an skewed sense of where the "power" lies when it comes to choosing. It's only mutual when you have more invites than you can accept.

I really like the idea of seeing the invites and then choosing. Two questions though:

1. How does it work? The chapters on my campus are matched with a specific PNM who comes to a party. Basically Patty PNM is matched with Sorority Sue at XYZ during party one. Would the PNM see her invites, choose and come back later for her schedule or what?

2. Does tent talk play more in these situations? I'm imagining all the PNMs sitting in a dorm room chatting. On the other hand, having more time to think on the interactions at each chapter aka sleeping on it might help.

I remember going through recruitment a second time and someone in my group asked how our invites were chosen. They were amazed that members would vote/rank/judge the pnms. I don't know how she thought it was before, but she was amazed that her invites depended on what the members thought of her.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by WCsweet<3

I really like the idea of seeing the invites and then choosing. Two questions though:

1. How does it work? The chapters on my campus are matched with a specific PNM who comes to a party. Basically Patty PNM is matched with Sorority Sue at XYZ during party one. Would the PNM see her invites, choose and come back later for her schedule or what?

It was my understanding that some campuses still do this, and yes - basically just like that. The PNMs meet with their Rho Whatevers in the morning, sit down at a computer and see their invitations for that day and decide who to go back to, and who to regret. In that case, they truly are 'cutting' a chapter because they've already received invitations. My concern with this is two-fold: 1) logistically, it seems like such a waste of time to do this the day of parties (which means a potential time crunch in determining party schedules, and less time for chapters to prepare for the returning PNMs) when they could have PNMs rank while the chapters are ranking. and 2) Yes, I would expect that tent talk would play a greater role when the PNMs have an entire evening back at the dorms to gossip before they have to make their final decisions.

I think it shouldn't be too hard for Panhellenics to take 5 minutes to explain that chapters decide who to invite back, while PNMs are ranking their preferred returns. Chapters have limited numbers of invitations, so not everyone can be invited back to every chapter. You will be matched for the next round with chapters that have invited you back, in order of your preference. Now, whether the PNMs understand and choose to hear it is another issue.

Something that might help the whole situation is an additional print-out showing the results of the previous day's matching, in addition to their party schedule, for example:

Ranks:
#1 - ABC - Invitation / Return
#1 - BCD - Invitation / Return
#1 - CDE - No Invitation
#1 - DEF - Invitation / Return
#2 - FGH - Invitation / Return
#3 - GHI - Invitation / No Return

Party Schedule:
BCD
FGH
DEF
ABC

[SLAM<3 Always]

I think the mutual selection comes more from the PNMs ability to not rank a particular organization. I see it very often at my university where girls will not rank all of the organization available to them.

However, I have always wondered this and maybe someone can explain this better to me. A guy can go through multiple rush's on campus and actually receive more than one bid. It's his choice than to accept one of those bids. What caused or was the reasoning behind a girl only being able to receive on bid at the end of formal recruitment?