Dual Memberships

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by naraht

I know the original poster left it general, but isn't there only one member of the NIC which has co-ed chapters? (ADPhi)

Alpha Delta Phi Fraternity ("ADPhi") is all-male. Alpha Delta Phi Society, which split from ADPhi over the co-ed issue and which shares traditions with the fraternity, is co-ed. But I don't think the Society is a member of the NIC.

As Vito would tell you, Psi U has co-ed chapters. So does Delta Psi (aka St. Anthony Hall).

ETA: I checked the NIC website, and Alpha Delta Phi Society is not listed as a member. But note what maverickmagali said:

Originally Posted by maverickmagali

. . . .but would that necessarily be true if it's NPC and IFC?

NIC and IFC are not the same thing. Fraternities that are not NIC members can and often are IFC members.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

As Vito would tell you, Psi U has co-ed chapters.

We actually had a chapter that for like a year the only member was a woman. We also have a chapter that intentionally always elects a women to serve on the IFC.

[naraht]

OK, for a Sorority which is a member of the NPC, is Sigma Alpha Iota the only national women-only collegiate Title IX exempt group that their members can belong to simultaneously? I know we've got NPC/SAI dual members here on Greekchat. Theoretically would a NPC/NPHC dual sorority membership be allowed?

Similarly for a Fraternity which is a member of the NIC, is Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia the *only* national men-only collegiate Title IX exempt group that their members can belong to simultaneously? Not sure if we have any NIC/PMA here on Greekchat. Theoretically would a NIC/NPHC dual fraternity membership be allowed? (and I'm excluding those groups that belong to both NIC & NPHC like Alpha Phi Alpha) (so if you have to pick an example: Alpha Tau Omega/Omega Psi Phi).

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by naraht

OK, for a Sorority which is a member of the NPC, is Sigma Alpha Iota the only national women-only collegiate Title IX exempt group that their members can belong to simultaneously? I know we've got NPC/SAI dual members here on Greekchat. Theoretically would a NPC/NPHC dual sorority membership be allowed?

I know that members of both NPC and NPHC sororities have said in the past that dual memberships are prohibited. Where that might be written down, if it is, I couldn't tell you.

Similarly for a Fraternity which is a member of the NIC, is Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia the *only* national men-only collegiate Title IX exempt group that their members can belong to simultaneously? Not sure if we have any NIC/PMA here on Greekchat. Theoretically would a NIC/NPHC dual fraternity membership be allowed? (and I'm excluding those groups that belong to both NIC & NPHC like Alpha Phi Alpha) (so if you have to pick an example: Alpha Tau Omega/Omega Psi Phi).

I can't say if we're the only group like you describe, but off the top of my head I can't think of another. That said, even though there is no national prohibition, dual memberships can still be prohibitied on some campuses where a Sinfonia chapter is an IFC member.

And I would note that Omega Psi Phi is the only NPHC fraternity that is not also in the NIC, so I think it's the only org for which your theoretical NIC/NPHC question could apply.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I know that members of both NPC and NPHC sororities have said in the past that dual memberships are prohibited. Where that might be written down, if it is, I couldn't tell you.

I can't say if we're the only group like you describe, but off the top of my head I can't think of another. That said, even though there is no national prohibition, dual memberships can still be prohibitied on some campuses where a Sinfonia chapter is an IFC member.

And I would note that Omega Psi Phi is the only NPHC fraternity that is not also in the NIC, so I think it's the only org for which your theoretical NIC/NPHC question could apply.

Hmm. So Phi Mu Alpha/NIC dual ability varies by campus, that sort of surprises me; individual Phi Mu Alpha chapter decision, university rules, or something else?

I knew that 3 of the 5 NPHC Fraternities were in, but I thought it was either Phi Beta Sigma or Kappa Alpha Psi, not both. I was wrong.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by naraht

Hmm. So Phi Mu Alpha/NIC dual ability varies by campus, that sort of surprises me; individual Phi Mu Alpha chapter decision, university rules, or something else?

I don't have first-hand experience with it, so I stand to be corrected. But my understanding is that on many if not all campuses where our chapters are members of IFC, part of joining IFC is an agreement not to allow dual memberships with other IFC chapters -- in other words, to play by the same rules with regard to dual membership that other IFC fraternities play by.

Bear in mind that while many chapters do belong to IFCs, most of our chapters do not. (I don't have hard numbers, but my sense is that the chapters belonging to IFC tend to be on smaller campuses.) The decision to join a campus IFC is made by the chapter in consultation with national staff/officers based on what works best for the chapter.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't have first-hand experience with it, so I stand to be corrected. But my understanding is that on many if not all campuses where our chapters are members of IFC, part of joining IFC is an agreement not to allow dual memberships with other IFC chapters -- in other words, to play by the same rules with regard to dual membership that other IFC fraternities play by.

Bear in mind that while many chapters do belong to IFCs, most of our chapters do not. (I don't have hard numbers, but my sense is that the chapters belonging to IFC tend to be on smaller campuses.) The decision to join a campus IFC is made by the chapter in consultation with national staff/officers based on what works best for the chapter.

I've seen Alpha Phi Omega (the co-ed service fraternity)l on a few cases get shoved onto the greek council, but as you said campuses with a small number of social greeks. The "if you pledge, you end up on the council" rule. However I've not seen any Alpha Phi Omega chapter where that has let to limitations on who can join.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by naraht

I knew that 3 of the 5 NPHC Fraternities were in, but I thought it was either Phi Beta Sigma or Kappa Alpha Psi, not both. I was wrong.

Iota Phi Theta is the forth NPHC fraternity that is also a member of the NIC. An interesting historical note is that Iota Phi Theta joined the NIC in 1985 - eleven years before they joined the NPHC in 1996.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Iota Phi Theta is the forth NPHC fraternity that is also a member of the NIC. An interesting historical note is that Iota Phi Theta joined the NIC in 1985 - eleven years before they joined the NPHC in 1996.

I was use of APhiA and IPhiTheta, it was ZPhiB and KAPsi I wasn't sure of...

The difference is that the NIC *had* rules on how a Fraternity would join it...

[Gamma Xi Phi]

Originally Posted by naraht

Theoretically would a NPC/NPHC dual sorority membership be allowed?

....Theoretically would a NIC/NPHC dual fraternity membership be allowed?

Not usually. Most NPHC orgs have rules against that.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Gamma Xi Phi

Not usually. Most NPHC orgs have rules against that.

OK. If they do, that answers the question.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by naraht

I've seen Alpha Phi Omega (the co-ed service fraternity)l on a few cases get shoved onto the greek council, but as you said campuses with a small number of social greeks. The "if you pledge, you end up on the council" rule. However I've not seen any Alpha Phi Omega chapter where that has let to limitations on who can join.

Like I said, I don't have first-hand experience with it. It seems, though, like the difference could be that APO is a (co-ed) service fraternity, so requiring it to be part of IFC is really trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. In that case, it would make no sense to anyone to limit dual membership.

Phi Mu Alpha, on the other hand, is a social fraternity, albeit not a general fraternity like most other NIC/IFC fraternities and not a member of the NIC. While I think there are some instances of schools saying "you're a social fraternity, so you need to be in IFC," there are also instances of chapters deciding they want to be in IFC because it is a good fit for them.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Like I said, I don't have first-hand experience with it. It seems, though, like the difference could be that APO is a (co-ed) service fraternity, so requiring it to be part of IFC is really trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. In that case, it would make no sense to anyone to limit dual membership.

Phi Mu Alpha, on the other hand, is a social fraternity, albeit not a general fraternity like most other NIC/IFC fraternities and not a member of the NIC. While I think there are some instances of schools saying "you're a social fraternity, so you need to be in IFC," there are also instances of chapters deciding they want to be in IFC because it is a good fit for them.

And my guess is that there are situations on the IFC where Phi Mu Alpha would be the only dual membership group to the entire rest of the council, but in the cases where Alpha Phi Omega ends up on the council, you've got the Social Fraternities, the Social Sororities, APO, KKY, TBS and probably others...