Occupy Wall Street

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Where are the skills? I think we need a reality check in this country. The days of study whatever you want to study because the economy will make room for you and give you your dream job is over.
http://news.yahoo.com/many-u-manufac...211104184.html

Wait...is it just me, or did we already discuss this subject on this thread? I agree- people need to go where the money is, so to speak.


The point I was making is, just because an agency has "jobs" to offer does not mean there are jobs abounding everywhere. Around here, the temp agencies are just that- temps. 90% of the jobs are not permanent. Like now, you could get into any warehouse/shipping job around here for the holidays (provided you have experience) but as of 1/1/2012 you'll be laid off again.

There really aren't a ton of jobs, so today's HS and college students, and job-career changers need to keep this in mind, moreso than in the past. There are always lists of professions most in demand, that's where people need to be concentrating. If I got laid off tomorrow, I would be taking that route, personally. I'm not trying to spend 2 more years in school to get out and not have a job.

The rules have changed. I think people should be grateful that for most, the American Dream is still achievable. They days of absolutely living your dream, buying a house for several hundred thousand dollars, driving a brand-new car and getting granite countertops are over. Remember what it's all about- living a better life, a comfortable life, the lives our ancestors dreamed of when they struggled through world wars, depression, factory jobs, immigrat housing. I don't think the change in values is bad- it's time to get back to basics and off of this absurd idea that the next generation has to blow away the past one to the point that we're in Mc Mansions and ultra-giant SUVs.

I know that is not ALL of what it's about, and I still think that there aren't enough jobs...but thinking with that logic I can understand why the movement would annoy people or come across as whiny. You are inherently privledged in order to be so disenfranchised in the first plac: "Oh I went to college and now I can't get a job." Hm, in many cities over 50% of the students graduate from HIGH SCHOOL...The soldier who has been to Iraq and Afghanistan multiple times and now has severe PTSD and cannot function in a classroom setting because of his issues will not be able to attend college. It's all relative. Many of those protesting are, as my mom would say, "crying with a loaf of bread under their arm."

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by *winter*

Wait...is it just me, or did we already discuss this subject on this thread? I agree- people need to go where the money is, so to speak.


The point I was making is, just because an agency has "jobs" to offer does not mean there are jobs abounding everywhere. Around here, the temp agencies are just that- temps. 90% of the jobs are not permanent. Like now, you could get into any warehouse/shipping job around here for the holidays (provided you have experience) but as of 1/1/2012 you'll be laid off again.

There really aren't a ton of jobs, so today's HS and college students, and job-career changers need to keep this in mind, moreso than in the past. There are always lists of professions most in demand, that's where people need to be concentrating. If I got laid off tomorrow, I would be taking that route, personally. I'm not trying to spend 2 more years in school to get out and not have a job.

The rules have changed. I think people should be grateful that for most, the American Dream is still achievable. They days of absolutely living your dream, buying a house for several hundred thousand dollars, driving a brand-new car and getting granite countertops are over. Remember what it's all about- living a better life, a comfortable life, the lives our ancestors dreamed of when they struggled through world wars, depression, factory jobs, immigrat housing. I don't think the change in values is bad- it's time to get back to basics and off of this absurd idea that the next generation has to blow away the past one to the point that we're in Mc Mansions and ultra-giant SUVs.

I know that is not ALL of what it's about, and I still think that there aren't enough jobs...but thinking with that logic I can understand why the movement would annoy people or come across as whiny. You are inherently privledged in order to be so disenfranchised in the first plac: "Oh I went to college and now I can't get a job." Hm, in many cities over 50% of the students graduate from HIGH SCHOOL...The soldier who has been to Iraq and Afghanistan multiple times and now has severe PTSD and cannot function in a classroom setting because of his issues will not be able to attend college. It's all relative. Many of those protesting are, as my mom would say, "crying with a loaf of bread under their arm."

I saw the string of posts but there was too much I agreed with to try to reply I really think we need to drop our uppity views of trade schools, apprenticeships, community colleges, alternative job training, etc . They really are a good option for a large segment of society. The idea that we need to saddle kids with $70,000 in student loan debt just so they can get a job making $35,000 a year is absurd.

I also believe that you need to go where the money is. I'm originally from the rust belt myself, but I've been living in TX the past few years because of my job. It was tough decision that took me out of my comfort zone but it's a lot better than being laid off. I personally know a few people back in MI who chose to stay (in MI) than move and lost their job because of that decision.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I really think we need to drop our uppity views of trade schools, apprenticeships, community colleges, alternative job training, etc.

Do people have uppity views regarding those? People who need those for whatever reason will continue to use those for whatever reason.

Is it uppity to acknowledge that most of the people who use those options (in general) have tracked themselves (i.e. tracking doesn't end in K-12 grades) into certain types of jobs and occupations? Is it uppity to acknowledge the social class (and its correlates) implications of that?

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Do people have uppity views regarding those? People who need those for whatever reason will continue to use those for whatever reason.

Is it uppity to acknowledge that most of the people who use those options (in general) have tracked themselves (i.e. tracking doesn't end in K-12 grades) into certain types of jobs and occupations? Is it uppity to acknowledge the social class (and its correlates) implications of that?

It would be fair to say that some people have uppity views regarding trade schools, etc. It would also be fair to say that we all can't go to the schools that people with uppity views find acceptable.

I suppose people who go those routes to employment have tracked themselves into X job/career, but if they are in a career that they enjoy and that they are satisfied with, then to heck with people with said uppity views. There's nothing shameful about having a useful skill and supporting yourself and your family with it.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

...but if they are in a career that they enjoy and that they are satisfied with....

One of the many premises of movements like People's Organization for Progress in New Jersey (their People's Daily Campaign for Jobs, Peace, Equality, and Justice began on June 27 and has been going for 109 days), labor unions, and Occupy Some Street is that the average American is in a career (most often, a job with no real concept of a career) that:

1. She/he theoretically enjoys but is overworked and underpaid

or

2. She/he does not even theoretically enjoy for whatever reasons

If the average American of the low to middle socioeconomic status (many of whom have trade schools/apprenticeships/community colleges/alternative job training on their resume`) found enjoyment and happiness in their jobs, these movements need to take their ball and go home. Leave the top 1% the hell alone.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Do people have uppity views regarding those? People who need those for whatever reason will continue to use those for whatever reason.

Is it uppity to acknowledge that most of the people who use those options (in general) have tracked themselves (i.e. tracking doesn't end in K-12 grades) into certain types of jobs and occupations? Is it uppity to acknowledge the social class (and its correlates) implications of that?

So you've never seen or heard someone who holds a 4-year degree from a traditional school scoff or look down on someone who went to a trade school or received a degree from a non traditional school (University of Phoenix)?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

So you've never seen or heard someone who holds a 4-year degree from a traditional school scoff or look down on someone who went to a trade school or received a degree from a non traditional school (University of Phoenix)?

Not employers in companies where trade schools, apprenticeships, community colleges, and alternative job training are considered competitive. Therefore, scoffing only matters when they scoff at someone who is submitting a resume` or job application. People have opinions on a range of things but those opinions only TRULY matter when they impact someone's life chances. If that trade school or nontraditional school degree is competitive for that job or career field, then it is what it is. If those degrees are not competitive, partly because the employers (ya know, those whose opinions REALLY count) are scoffing, then so many Americans need to think twice before getting training and degrees from those institutions.

I don't have a negative opinion of trade schools, apprenticeships, community colleges, and alternative job training programs. However, I do have a negative opinion of for-profit institutions like University of Phoenix. (I don't dislike Strayer for certain degrees therefore I consider it a higher tier for-profit than University of Phoenix.) We have an entire thread filled with scoff over schools like University of Phoenix. As an educator, I can say that University of Phoenix is one of the worst for-profit schools for a number of reasons. That is why schools like University of Phoenix need to stop lying to people and telling them that their degree is competitive across disciplines and across jobs and careers. That just isn't true. Schools like University of Phoenix need to find their niche and stick with that. Stay in your lane, nontraditional for-profit schools. But, they won't do that which is why they are for-profit.