The Confederate Flag

[thetaj]

Southern Pride: You Get It Or You Don't

[steveg]

Originally Posted by thetaj

Southern Pride: You Get It Or You Don't

The one thing you cannot change is "HISTORY"!

It happened right or wrong!

A flag or banner is just that.

There are people today who will ignore the Flag/banner of the USA.

Now, my question are you one of them?

Down the road, history and those who are still here will ask the same question!

Will this also go for your fraternity/sorority Flags/banners?

Get over it, please!

People died for their beleifs are you redy to do that?

Sounds like B S to me!

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by steveg

The one thing you cannot change is "HISTORY"!

It happened right or wrong!

A flag or banner is just that.

There are people today who will ignore the Flag/banner of the USA.

Now, my question are you one of them?

Down the road, history and those who are still here will ask the same question!

Will this also go for your fraternity/sorority Flags/banners?

Get over it, please!

People died for their beleifs are you redy to do that?

Sounds like B S to me!

WTF?

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by steveg

The one thing you cannot change is "HISTORY"!

It happened right or wrong!

A flag or banner is just that.

There are people today who will ignore the Flag/banner of the USA.

Now, my question are you one of them?

Down the road, history and those who are still here will ask the same question!

Will this also go for your fraternity/sorority Flags/banners?

Get over it, please!

People died for their beleifs are you redy to do that?

Sounds like B S to me!

I already know the answer to this question but I'm just gonna ask anyway...

...are you drunk?

[*winter*]

So...I've thought about it, and I've come to 2 conclusions:

1) I guess I assume people in general are always more pleasant in the south and more confrontational in the north, which leads to point 2...

2) I have a very skewed world view!

As for the entire issue of what Northerners think of the CF and why...pondering this on the way home from work...where I'm passed by a lifted old Ford truck- giant tires, gun rack, swerving in and out of lanes aggressively- and, you guessed it- sporting a CF decorative plate! THIS is the image we come to associate with those who use the flag. Thing is, growing up in a city, I never really saw CFs until I went awayto college. And then, they were never flying proud in front of a nicely manicured split level ranch...but posted next to signs like "Insured by Smith & Wesson"'and "Redneck and Proud!". Really...around here, that is the typical CF fan. So we tend to associate them with such folks.

After living in the South in the military, and working with a diverse group of people, I've come to understand the fact that it's seen differently in the south. Normal people fly it as a symbol of their heritage.

It's just (and sadly, too) gotten a terrible rap around here due to all those who use it simply as a form of showing pride in the wrong things. It also intimidates minorities because of that association. Whenever I do field visits with other staff members, the non white ones start to get nervous when they spot a few in the country. Which brings me to my next point- these jokers give ALL rural people a bad name- many of the non-white field staff members were very unsure about visiting my county field area because of all the heresy that "those people are racist." when I got them out and meeting people, they realized what everyone does- the majority of small town PA people are not imbred hateful people, but just normal folks who have problems and are glad to accept some assistance with them, regardless of the race of the engineer.

People like that just screw it up for everyone.

[thetaj]

Originally Posted by *winter*

So...I've thought about it, and I've come to 2 conclusions:

1) I guess I assume people in general are always more pleasant in the south and more confrontational in the north, which leads to point 2...

2) I have a very skewed world view!

As for the entire issue of what Northerners think of the CF and why...pondering this on the way home from work...where I'm passed by a lifted old Ford truck- giant tires, gun rack, swerving in and out of lanes aggressively- and, you guessed it- sporting a CF decorative plate! THIS is the image we come to associate with those who use the flag. Thing is, growing up in a city, I never really saw CFs until I went awayto college. And then, they were never flying proud in front of a nicely manicured split level ranch...but posted next to signs like "Insured by Smith & Wesson"'and "Redneck and Proud!". Really...around here, that is the typical CF fan. So we tend to associate them with such folks.

After living in the South in the military, and working with a diverse group of people, I've come to understand the fact that it's seen differently in the south. Normal people fly it as a symbol of their heritage.

It's just (and sadly, too) gotten a terrible rap around here due to all those who use it simply as a form of showing pride in the wrong things. It also intimidates minorities because of that association. Whenever I do field visits with other staff members, the non white ones start to get nervous when they spot a few in the country. Which brings me to my next point- these jokers give ALL rural people a bad name- many of the non-white field staff members were very unsure about visiting my county field area because of all the heresy that "those people are racist." when I got them out and meeting people, they realized what everyone does- the majority of small town PA people are not imbred hateful people, but just normal folks who have problems and are glad to accept some assistance with them, regardless of the race of the engineer.

People like that just screw it up for everyone.

This.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

2. The relative few white people who do live in historically and predominantly Black neighborhoods have their Black Card Cliff Notes and have a general idea what to do and what not to do.

iLaughed.

[ASTalumna06]

I know I'm late to the party, but I have a few things to add..

I live in the North. I always have. So this is purely a northern perspective. I might be ignorant to some ideas of the South (yes, I'll admit that), but it's simply because of my own experiences.. or lack thereof.

Originally Posted by thetaj

Do people in the North honestly believe that when people in the South fly the rebel flag, they're doing so because they're racist/pleased with the results of slavery/trying to reverse the outcome of the Civil War? Honest question. Because if you HONESTLY think that's why it's flown down here, then shame on you for being so ignorant about the South.

Yes..but not really. The reason being is this:

Originally Posted by *winter*

As for the entire issue of what Northerners think of the CF and why...pondering this on the way home from work...where I'm passed by a lifted old Ford truck- giant tires, gun rack, swerving in and out of lanes aggressively- and, you guessed it- sporting a CF decorative plate! THIS is the image we come to associate with those who use the flag.
...

It's just (and sadly, too) gotten a terrible rap around here due to all those who use it simply as a form of showing pride in the wrong things. It also intimidates minorities because of that association.

And TV and movies don't help.

I understand that not all Southerners who fly the flag mean it in a negative way, but I can't get on board with waving it proudly... and definitely not up here. It's viewed differently here. Period. It's not that we don't understand.. it's not that we look at ALL southerners as racist... but we've been up North, living our non-Confederate-flag-waving lives, and we've generally been taught that it's an evil thing.

Flags and symbols represent many things.. pride, beliefs, morals, values, etc. of countries, organizations, religions, etc. While the Holocaust and Civil War might not be comparable - and even if they are, I don't want to compare them now - there is one thing that they definitely share; each had a flag/symbol that in one way or another, represented something negative (even if not in its entirety). Not everyone in the whole world views the swastika as something negative, and the same goes for the Confederate flag. However, a good portion of the population does.

For me personally, if I had any kind of symbol or flag plastered across my bumper sticker, or flying out in front of my house, and I thought it might offend a mass group of people, I'd take it down. Hell, I wouldn't put it up in the first place.

My follow-up question is: I know that you in the South can't speak for EVERYONE, but what is your perspective of how minorities in the South feel about it?

[*winter*]

Didn't mean to offend...particularly not someone as nice as SWTXBelle!

I just have been so exposed to the idea that flying the flag means someone is being arrogant or racist. We had a horrible incident in 08 when Obama got elected...the person who created the little piece of violent artwork was also sporting a 10x10'CF on their storage tent. That is just one incident...

Again, not an excuse to judge everyone on those people's actions....sorry.

As for the question, would someone rip it down in a Northern black neighborhood? I'm willing to bet yes. People up north rip down signs for the "other guy" in politics, they rip down and/or TP signs for the rival sports team...I'm not saying I agree but I can see that haopening. Heck, immured enough to go hang one inthe neighboring town, on an abandoned house, and see how long it lasts...

[*winter*]

*I'm bored enough*

[steveg]

Isn't it true that there will always be racisim?

Hey, back when the Italians, Irish, Germansand Jews were werew int the same boat?

This country is a mish mash of people, right?

But times are changing. Just look at greek web sites!

Again, history was and is there, you cannot change it, so quit trying.

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by steveg

Isn't it true that there will always be racisim?

Hey, back when the Italians, Irish, Germansand Jews were werew int the same boat?

This country is a mish mash of people, right?

But times are changing. Just look at greek web sites!

Again, history was and is there, you cannot change it, so quit trying.

Do you understand the words coming out of your mouth?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by steveg

The one thing you cannot change is "HISTORY"!

It happened right or wrong!

A flag or banner is just that.

There are people today who will ignore the Flag/banner of the USA.

Now, my question are you one of them?

Down the road, history and those who are still here will ask the same question!

Will this also go for your fraternity/sorority Flags/banners?

Get over it, please!

People died for their beleifs are you redy to do that?

Sounds like B S to me!

Originally Posted by steveg

Isn't it true that there will always be racisim?

Hey, back when the Italians, Irish, Germansand Jews were werew int the same boat?

This country is a mish mash of people, right?

But times are changing. Just look at greek web sites!

Again, history was and is there, you cannot change it, so quit trying.

Hi Tom.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Hi Tom.

Bwa ha ha!

[thetaj]

Originally Posted by steveg

Isn't it true that there will always be racisim?

Hey, back when the Italians, Irish, Germansand Jews were werew int the same boat?

This country is a mish mash of people, right?

But times are changing. Just look at greek web sites!

Again, history was and is there, you cannot change it, so quit trying.

The South isn't trying to rise again. If you think that's why people fly the rebel flag, then you're dumb.