The Confederate Flag

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

They weren't always free. There were a number of northern states in which folks owned slaves prior to their state abolishing slavery.

Slaves, indentured servants, and "helpers."

That was the awesomeness of living further up north.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

While I agree that slavery was a major factor (if not the major factor) in the war, let's not ignore the reason the North wanted to abolish slavery. It wasn't because they were more moral than the South or felt like slavery was a bad thing - it's because they were afraid that white people wouldn't be able to land paying jobs if they were competing against slave labor.

Of course, there certainly were abolitionists for whom it was moral issue.

All of which points up something I think has to be remembered: When it comes to something like the Civil War, there are no simple explanations. There certainly are major factors such as slavery, which as you say may be the predominant factor. But it's a mistake to reduce it to "The Civil War was about x," even if that x is a major factor There were lots of inter-related things going on -- racial factors, class factors, economic factors, religious factors, philosophical factors, governmental factors . . . . The reason one person supported one side or the other may have been quite different from his neighbors reasons.

It's not necessarily glossing over uncomfortable history or trying to put a positive spin on things to debate what the Civil War was really about. It can just be taking a realistic view of a complex thing.

And its part of the reason that symbols from that war can mean different things to different people.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Slaves, indentured servants, and "helpers."

That was the awesomeness of living further up north.

Right. "Northerners" love to get all snobby about the South and slavery but not only did many northern states actively participate for a while, they benefited GREATLY from slavery for a time even after slavery was abolished in their own states.

Not that it really speaks to the issue of the thread, but it's not like folks can turn their noses up in the air about racism and slavery in regard to the South and think that their ancestors (if they lived in the North) were any better. American history is messy, all the way through.

And don't even get me fucking started on Small Pox blankets. Way to be, North, you're fucking awesome.

[thetaj]

Southern Pride: You Get It Or You Don't

[steveg]

Originally Posted by thetaj

Southern Pride: You Get It Or You Don't

The one thing you cannot change is "HISTORY"!

It happened right or wrong!

A flag or banner is just that.

There are people today who will ignore the Flag/banner of the USA.

Now, my question are you one of them?

Down the road, history and those who are still here will ask the same question!

Will this also go for your fraternity/sorority Flags/banners?

Get over it, please!

People died for their beleifs are you redy to do that?

Sounds like B S to me!

[*winter*]

Didn't mean to offend...particularly not someone as nice as SWTXBelle!

I just have been so exposed to the idea that flying the flag means someone is being arrogant or racist. We had a horrible incident in 08 when Obama got elected...the person who created the little piece of violent artwork was also sporting a 10x10'CF on their storage tent. That is just one incident...

Again, not an excuse to judge everyone on those people's actions....sorry.

As for the question, would someone rip it down in a Northern black neighborhood? I'm willing to bet yes. People up north rip down signs for the "other guy" in politics, they rip down and/or TP signs for the rival sports team...I'm not saying I agree but I can see that haopening. Heck, immured enough to go hang one inthe neighboring town, on an abandoned house, and see how long it lasts...

[*winter*]

*I'm bored enough*

[agzg]

Whoa, it's been a while since Tom paid a visit.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by steveg

The one thing you cannot change is "HISTORY"!

It happened right or wrong!

A flag or banner is just that.

There are people today who will ignore the Flag/banner of the USA.

Now, my question are you one of them?

Down the road, history and those who are still here will ask the same question!

Will this also go for your fraternity/sorority Flags/banners?

Get over it, please!

People died for their beleifs are you redy to do that?

Sounds like B S to me!

WTF?

[steveg]

Isn't it true that there will always be racisim?

Hey, back when the Italians, Irish, Germansand Jews were werew int the same boat?

This country is a mish mash of people, right?

But times are changing. Just look at greek web sites!

Again, history was and is there, you cannot change it, so quit trying.

[BluPhire]

I guess the confederate flag is proof that history isn't always written by the Victor.

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by steveg

Isn't it true that there will always be racisim?

Hey, back when the Italians, Irish, Germansand Jews were werew int the same boat?

This country is a mish mash of people, right?

But times are changing. Just look at greek web sites!

Again, history was and is there, you cannot change it, so quit trying.

Do you understand the words coming out of your mouth?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by steveg

The one thing you cannot change is "HISTORY"!

It happened right or wrong!

A flag or banner is just that.

There are people today who will ignore the Flag/banner of the USA.

Now, my question are you one of them?

Down the road, history and those who are still here will ask the same question!

Will this also go for your fraternity/sorority Flags/banners?

Get over it, please!

People died for their beleifs are you redy to do that?

Sounds like B S to me!

Originally Posted by steveg

Isn't it true that there will always be racisim?

Hey, back when the Italians, Irish, Germansand Jews were werew int the same boat?

This country is a mish mash of people, right?

But times are changing. Just look at greek web sites!

Again, history was and is there, you cannot change it, so quit trying.

Hi Tom.

[thetaj]

Originally Posted by steveg

Isn't it true that there will always be racisim?

Hey, back when the Italians, Irish, Germansand Jews were werew int the same boat?

This country is a mish mash of people, right?

But times are changing. Just look at greek web sites!

Again, history was and is there, you cannot change it, so quit trying.

The South isn't trying to rise again. If you think that's why people fly the rebel flag, then you're dumb.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Hi Tom.

Bwa ha ha!