The Confederate Flag

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I really don't know what to say other than it is obvious that you don't get it, and to be honest, I don't have the energy right now to try and explain it. Like some others here, I tire of non-Southerners dismissing the whole thing with an "I just don't get it."

Suffice it to say that symbols can have different meanings to different people. The wise and thoughful person is aware of that and takes into account both what they themselves understand a symbol to mean and what they know others might understand the symbol to mean. And that can work both ways.

I believe you're misunderstanding what I mean by "I just don't get it". I am in no way dismissing anything. I'm just stating a fact. I don't understand it. I don't know what others understand the Confederate flag to mean. If it's never explained to me then how can I understand it?

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Again, flags represent different things to different people.

I'm sure that you know that participation in the slave trade and all the atrocities that went with it was not limited to Southerners. It involved people from all over America (not to mention the British and many other non-Americans), and it was sanctioned and supported by federal law. Does that mean the American flag is tainted?

Actually, yes I believe it does.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

To be clear: I'm not so much trying to defend any Confederate flag, much less the Confederacy itself, as I am trying to highlight this point: I think one of the biggest hinderances to understanding other people or other perspectives is the phrase "I just don't get it," or its cousin, "I just don't understand how people can think that." If no effort has been put into trying to understand another's perspective, it's a cop-out and that just reinforces one's own biases. Understanding another's perspective doesn't mean agreement with it, but it does mean being open to the possiblity that maybe, just maybe, there is more than one way to see things.

I'm completely open to trying to understand a different perspective. This has all been discussed here before but then, like now, no one has actually tried to explain it. You're assuming that I haven't put any effort into trying to understand it. That's not true. I have put effort into it. I'm more than willing to listen to an explanation of Southern pride as expressed by waving the Confederate flag without it being racist. The problem is no one seems to be willing to explain it.

You yourself stated that you don't have the energy to explain it. Yet you apparently have plenty of energy to post several times about my "mentality". That's a real cop-out. Why don't you try to be part of the solution? Explain it.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I believe you're misunderstanding what I mean by "I just don't get it". I am in no way dismissing anything. I'm just stating a fact. I don't understand it. I don't know what others understand the Confederate flag to mean. If it's never explained to me then how can I understand it?

No one has explained it or you have never read about this?

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I'm completely open to trying to understand a different perspective. This has all been discussed here before but then, like now, no one has actually tried to explain it. You're assuming that I haven't put any effort into trying to understand it. That's not true. I have put effort into it. I'm more than willing to listen to an explanation of Southern pride as expressed by waving the Confederate flag without it being racist. The problem is no one seems to be willing to explain it.

People have explained it. You may not grasp the manner in which they are explaining it. That is subconciously (and perhaps consciously) rooted in your belief that you neither understand nor agree with it. When people disagree with something, they tend to want explanations to be in an awesome package that caters not only to those who need the information but also to those who disagree and need to be convinced.

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

You yourself stated that you don't have the energy to explain it. Yet you apparently have plenty of energy to post several times about my "mentality". That's a real cop-out. Why don't you try to be part of the solution? Explain it.

LOL. This was both cute and funny.

Have you never read these types of threads before? Even people in this thread have explained why they have positive feelings about the Confederacy even with its history. Again, their explanation is not designed for you specifically to comprehend using the language that you may need to comprehend. But, it is a discussion and an explanation.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I'm completely open to trying to understand a different perspective. This has all been discussed here before but then, like now, no one has actually tried to explain it. You're assuming that I haven't put any effort into trying to understand it. That's not true. I have put effort into it. I'm more than willing to listen to an explanation of Southern pride as expressed by waving the Confederate flag without it being racist. The problem is no one seems to be willing to explain it.

You yourself stated that you don't have the energy to explain it. Yet you apparently have plenty of energy to post several times about my "mentality". That's a real cop-out. Why don't you try to be part of the solution? Explain it.

The thing is, as Dr. Phil says, many of us have explained it so many times in so many threads (and elsewhere in life), that we literally grow weary of it. I'm sorry if it comes across as a cop-out, but there it is.

As for the "mentality" comment, what you said was:

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

Being a Northerner, I just don't get it. How can anyone possibly be proud of their Southern heritage to the point of flying a Confederate flag (the obvious one) without that being based on racism? How can you be proud of ancestors who participated in something despicable?

Sorry, but that doesn't sound at all to me like someone who really wants to understand. If it is an expression of wanting to understand, it's worded in a very loaded way -- less "help me understand" and more "defend your obviously wrong actions!" Might as well ask if we're still beating our wives as well.

[Cen1aur 1963]

I cannot agree with a flag that came into existence to represent a nation who's soul purpose was to keep me enslaved for their economic benefit. As far as I'm concerned that lady who's flying that flag in her yard, of course she has that right, but in my eyes she's a racist bitch.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The thing is, as Dr. Phil says, many of us have explained it so many times in so many threads (and elsewhere in life), that we literally grow weary of it. I'm sorry if it comes across as a cop-out, but there it is.

As for the "mentality" comment, what you said was:
Sorry, but that doesn't sound at all to me like someone who really wants to understand. If it is an expression of wanting to understand, it's worded in a very loaded way -- less "help me understand" and more "defend your obviously wrong actions!" Might as well ask if we're still beating our wives as well.

Fair enough on both counts. How about this... I will refrain from making any more judgments or statements about Southern pride until I properly educate myself on the topic. Sounds like that should have been an obvious decision that I should have made beforehand but I'll admit that I've always seen this as a very black and white / good v. evil situation. I'm serious when I say that I'm mentally admonishing myself for taking such a narrow view.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

Fair enough on both counts. How about this... I will refrain from making any more judgments or statements about Southern pride until I properly educate myself on the topic. Sounds like that should have been an obvious decision that I should have made beforehand but I'll admit that I've always seen this as a very black and white / good v. evil situation. I'm serious when I say that I'm mentally admonishing myself for taking such a narrow view.

And I'm serious when I say I really appreciate this.