Affluent Black County Mired In Mortgage Mess

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Hey, I'm on vacation so I'm allowed. I also have to build up a tolerance to alcohol. I'm flying out west and touring Pinot Noir country this week!

I look forward to your thoughts on these topics.

Boodleboy322, I know this isn't your intent but this is not going to be a discussion (or debate) of what specific lenders are or are not purportedly doing. I will just generally say that homebuyers are going based on language used on different lenders' websites and conversations with the people who work for these lenders.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I agree.

Yet, people are still enticed by the (even slightly) lower rate of particular ARMs. This topic has come up more and more and I've been reading more on the subprime mortgage crisis. It's sad. I think a lot of people are still in favor of ARMs at face value and regardless of the details. This has a substantial impact on the "middle class" and disproportionately impacts homebuyers who are racial and ethnic minorities.


Calling Munchkin03 to the dancefloor. LOL.

I'm here! Finally! I was out of town for a wedding this weekend and was mad busy in the days leading up to it.

I hinted at this upthread, but there's a lot of pressure for black professionals to buy houses even when it might not be the best time to do so in their lives. It used to be that homeownership was the official sign that "you've made it," and you can still see it with a lot of black Baby Boomers and Greatest Generation folks. When I got my masters, my father was on me hard to buy--I knew it was a dumb idea, given how mutable my life was and how expensive real estate was in NYC, and I chose to focus my financial priorities on building savings and investing for retirement. I'll have the rest of my life to buy a house. But, there are a lot of people in their early to mid 20s who take what their parents say as gospel, especially if their parents did "well." (It's a relative term since so many Black Greatest Generation and Baby Boomers had stable government or union jobs, VA housing loans, and the GI bill to get out of college without debt. It would require lot more income--and much lower housing costs--to replicate that sort of middle-class prosperity today.)

This pressure is a lot worse in areas where there are lots of young black professionals--DC and Atlanta come to mind--and those happen to be places where housing stock is pretty expensive. Black young professionals, more so than their white and Asian counterparts, come out of school with more debt and less family assistance for things like down payments and closing costs. Lenders knew what they were doing by reaching out to these folks with no-down-payment loans with teaser interest rates. Also, back in 2005 or so, people were afraid of being priced out of the real estate game.

It's just a messy situation all around, and today's black professionals--most of whom were either first generation college students and/or first generation homeowners--were more vulnerable than their white colleagues with similar education and income.

Did anyone read the NYTimes article a few years ago, about how their economics editor got sucked into one of these crazy loans? He's white, but he lives in the DC area. Unlike the PG County folks, he was able to spin a book out of the experience, and the advance saved him from foreclosure (he was about 8 months behind).

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I'm here! Finally! I was out of town for a wedding this weekend and was mad busy in the days leading up to it.

I hinted at this upthread, but there's a lot of pressure for black professionals to buy houses even when it might not be the best time to do so in their lives. It used to be that homeownership was the official sign that "you've made it," and you can still see it with a lot of black Baby Boomers and Greatest Generation folks. When I got my masters, my father was on me hard to buy--I knew it was a dumb idea, given how mutable my life was and how expensive real estate was in NYC, and I chose to focus my financial priorities on building savings and investing for retirement. I'll have the rest of my life to buy a house. But, there are a lot of people in their early to mid 20s who take what their parents say as gospel, especially if their parents did "well." (It's a relative term since so many Black Greatest Generation and Baby Boomers had stable government or union jobs, VA housing loans, and the GI bill to get out of college without debt. It would require lot more income--and much lower housing costs--to replicate that sort of middle-class prosperity today.)

This pressure is a lot worse in areas where there are lots of young black professionals--DC and Atlanta come to mind--and those happen to be places where housing stock is pretty expensive. Black young professionals, more so than their white and Asian counterparts, come out of school with more debt and less family assistance for things like down payments and closing costs. Lenders knew what they were doing by reaching out to these folks with no-down-payment loans with teaser interest rates. Also, back in 2005 or so, people were afraid of being priced out of the real estate game.

It's just a messy situation all around, and today's black professionals--most of whom were either first generation college students and/or first generation homeowners--were more vulnerable than their white colleagues with similar education and income.

I agree. There's a reason why these things disproportionately impact Blacks. That includes those who were discriminated against by lenders/didn't have the proper resources and those who consciously spent way more than they could comfortably afford.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Did anyone read the NYTimes article a few years ago, about how their economics editor got sucked into one of these crazy loans? He's white, but he lives in the DC area. Unlike the PG County folks, he was able to spin a book out of the experience, and the advance saved him from foreclosure (he was about 8 months behind).

Is this his story? Yikes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_203305.html

[1stSoon2BePhD]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

It's just a messy situation all around, and today's black professionals--most of whom were either first generation college students and/or first generation homeowners--were more vulnerable than their white colleagues with similar education and income.

I agree 100% and I think THIS is the problem - it's like the old story of poor people winning the lottery one week and being broke again the next. People who weren't taught how to properly manage their money are, in my opinion, at higher risk of losing it. I was just talking to someone about this today as I am a first generation college graduate and will soon be the first person in my family with a PhD. I have no idea what it takes to pay for a house because my parents never owned a house and we were evicted twice.

Just because you make "six figures" doesn't mean you know how to MANAGE that much money. I think this is a hard concept for people to grasp so they end up bankrupt and in foreclosure.

[DrPhil]

http://www.aaah.org/

http://ybpguide.com/2006/12/04/home-buying-101/

http://www.emergingminds.org/African...me-Market.html

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I agree. There's a reason why these things disproportionately impact Blacks.

So blacks face foreclosure at a higher rate than non-blacks? I didn't know that. Where would one find these figures?

Is this his story? Yikes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_203305.html

I posted this story a few months back. There is also a similar one circling FB about a family who haven't made a mortgage payment in almost 2 years. Must.Be.Nice. As a renter I think I could slide for about a month tops before my ass was living on the street. I'm sorry but since housing is typically ones highest expense, barring catastrophe I don't understand how one could not pay for housing and still be behind on credit card bills.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I'm here! Finally! I was out of town for a wedding this weekend and was mad busy in the days leading up to it.

I hinted at this upthread, but there's a lot of pressure for black professionals to buy houses even when it might not be the best time to do so in their lives. It used to be that homeownership was the official sign that "you've made it," and you can still see it with a lot of black Baby Boomers and Greatest Generation folks. When I got my masters, my father was on me hard to buy--I knew it was a dumb idea, given how mutable my life was and how expensive real estate was in NYC, and I chose to focus my financial priorities on building savings and investing for retirement. I'll have the rest of my life to buy a house. But, there are a lot of people in their early to mid 20s who take what their parents say as gospel, especially if their parents did "well." (It's a relative term since so many Black Greatest Generation and Baby Boomers had stable government or union jobs, VA housing loans, and the GI bill to get out of college without debt. It would require lot more income--and much lower housing costs--to replicate that sort of middle-class prosperity today.)

The bolded statements are more universal than you think. We are just living in a different era now than when our parents were our age. Over Thanksgiving my aunt was telling me how she bought her first house when she was 19 and working as a cashier at a grocery store and couldn't understand why "kids" these days couldn't afford their own houses. I told her if I was able to buy a nice 3 bedroom ranch in a safe, tree lined suburb for $35,000 than I probably would've been a homeowner at 19 as well

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

So blacks face foreclosure at a higher rate than non-blacks? I didn't know that. Where would one find these figures?

Well, I said "disproportionately." That is within the context of representation in the total population and among those who are purchasing houses. And I believe I was talking about a range of economic correlates and outcomes that disproportionately impact racial and ethnic minorities.

Example:
http://minnesotaindependent.com/6041...re-crisis-race

As for an overall "higher rate," example:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/18/news...sure/index.htm

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I posted this story a few months back. There is also a similar one circling FB about a family who haven't made a mortgage payment in almost 2 years. Must.Be.Nice. As a renter I think I could slide for about a month tops before my ass was living on the street. I'm sorry but since housing is typically ones highest expense, barring catastrophe I don't understand how one could not pay for housing and still be behind on credit card bills.

You have a generous leasing office.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

You have a generous leasing office.

Actually, it's more likely he has a non-renter-friendly state ... a good number of states are very strongly pro-renter in their landlord laws, and 30 days might be a minimum rather than maximum (FWIW, I believe MI is 7-day notice). Of course, states vary wildly.

Now, whether landlords actually follow these policies is completely different, and most renters have no clue of their actual rights and will follow regardless.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

The bolded statements are more universal than you think. We are just living in a different era now than when our parents were our age. Over Thanksgiving my aunt was telling me how she bought her first house when she was 19 and working as a cashier at a grocery store and couldn't understand why "kids" these days couldn't afford their own houses. I told her if I was able to buy a nice 3 bedroom ranch in a safe, tree lined suburb for $35,000 than I probably would've been a homeowner at 19 as well

You could if you were still up here...house next door to me went for $30K. A 3 bedroom ranch in a safe tree lined suburb! 4 bedroom cape cod with hot tub and in ground pool went for $43K.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AGDee

You could if you were still up here...house next door to me went for $30K. A 3 bedroom ranch in a safe tree lined suburb! 4 bedroom cape cod with hot tub and in ground pool went for $43K.

Yeah now but those houses probably went for about 200K five years ago. If I lived in MI making the money I make now I'd own at least two houses right now with one of them without a mortgage. One to live in and another one (or two) to rent out and then sell later on in life once the housing market in MI got better. I thought about buying a house and renting it out but the whole long distance landlord thing wasn't very appealing to me, even though I would've only had a $20k mortgage. And on another note, the city where I'm currently vying for a job has starter homes starting at $260k

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I thought about buying a house and renting it out but the whole long distance landlord thing wasn't very appealing to me, even though I would've only had a $20k mortgage.

That is hit or miss even with a strict contract. You never know what kind of house tenant you'll get until they either are or are not a bust. Then you have to consider costs for maintenance and other incidentals that the tenant may or may not be responsible for.

It works better if you don't live too far and/or you have reliable family and friends in the area who can check on your property and answer more immediate concerns.

My parents did the long distance landlord thing and BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...*taking a breath*...BOOOOOOOOOOOOO....

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That is hit or miss even with a strict contract. You never know what kind of house tenant you'll get until they either are or are not a bust. Then you have to consider costs for maintenance and other incidentals that the tenant may or may not be responsible for.

It works better if you don't live too far and/or you have reliable family and friends in the area who can check on your property and answer more immediate concerns.

My parents did the long distance landlord thing and BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...*taking a breath*...BOOOOOOOOOOOOO....

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

LOL.



/back to the regularly scheduled thread