TX considering concealed guns on campus

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

While i respect, and to some degree, agree with the sentiment behind this, I think this statement is somewhat naive. The desire that everyone take responsibility for his or her own safety or the safety of another is predicated on the assumption that the average person will act responsibly when in a sudden, stressful situation. While I certainly assume that everyone would intend to act responsibly, my life experience leads me to believe that intention (or training for a CHL) isn't enough. The person who can act calmly and responsibly in a situation like this is, I think, the exception rather than the rule, as much as we'd all like to think we'd perform well under pressure. And I think that's especially the case in this context -- college students. That's one reason I find the "if there had only been someone with a gun at Virginia Tech" argument unpersuasive.

Yep many offenders are nervous and panicky when they commit crimes, which is one reason why some of them consume alcohol and/or drugs before the commission of a crime. They need to be in an alternate state. If a motivated offender needs to calm his or her nerves to commit a crime, including one where he or she is using a gun and has planned the crime for at least 1 minute (most crimes, including violent crimes involving guns, are not as well planned as the VTech shooting), why do people think that the average law abiding citizen would be a rational Billy Badass just because they have CHL training and a gun?

People have stage fright, panic attacks, nervous disorders, bipolar disorder, medications to stabilize their moods, medications to address depression and other conditions...yet people expect the average citizen (Texas in this instance) to be level headed and properly guided enough to carry guns anyandeverywhere; and be permitted to decipher when the gun should be used in split second decisions just because they have a layperson level of training and perhaps some target practice at a gun range?

On the other side, it has been said that when in a fight for survival, human's animal instincts kick in and it is "do or die." That is wonderful if action is all people expect. That is horrible if the PROPER action is what people expect.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yep many offenders are nervous and panicky when they commit crimes, which is one reason why some of them consume alcohol and/or drugs before the commission of a crime. They need to be in an alternate state. If a motivated offender needs to calm his or her nerves to commit a crime, including one where he or she is using a gun and has planned the crime for at least 1 minute (most crimes, including violent crimes involving guns, are not as well planned as the VTech shooting), why do people think that the average law abiding citizen would be a rational Billy Badass just because they have CHL training and a gun?

People have stage fright, panic attacks, nervous disorders, bipolar disorder, medications to stabilize their moods, medications to address depression and other conditions...yet people expect the average citizen (Texas in this instance) to be level headed and properly guided enough to carry guns anyandeverywhere; and be permitted to decipher when the gun should be used in split second decisions just because they have a layperson level of training and perhaps some target practice at a gun range?

Also capable of retrieving said concealed weapon - for women often in a purse not in a holster - aiming, and firing before the offender notices and can aim and fire.

It surprises me even more when states attempt to or have revoked requiring ANY sort of licensure or training to carry or carry concealed. I've seen the NRA support these sort of measures, and I have to admit, I'm baffled.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Also capable of retrieving said concealed weapon - for women often in a purse not in a holster - aiming, and firing before the offender notices and can aim and fire.

What? You mean you don't think a woman can get her gun out of her purse, prepare the gun to fire, aim and fire faster than crazyguy with an assault weapon?

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I think an important point being overlooked is the mental health / emotional state of the person with the gun. Clearly in the Columbine and VT shootings the shooters were very emotionally unstable people. They dealt with their emotions by shooting and killing people.


I'd much rather have legislation that improves mental health services than promoting guns on campus.

Yes!!

And I think this goes directly to the deterrent effect, at least for the Columbine/VaTech-type incident. We're talking about irrational people to begin with, and often people who intend to die in the incident anyway. They won't be deterred by the fact that others will have guns; more likely, they'll just take that into account and plan accordingly.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yep many offenders are nervous and panicky when they commit crimes, which is one reason why some of them consume alcohol and/or drugs before the commission of a crime. They need to be in an alternate state. If a motivated offender needs to calm his or her nerves to commit a crime, including one where he or she is using a gun and has planned the crime for at least 1 minute (most crimes, including violent crimes involving guns, are not as well planned as the VTech shooting), why do people think that the average law abiding citizen would be a rational Billy Badass just because they have CHL training and a gun?

People have stage fright, panic attacks, nervous disorders, bipolar disorder, medications to stabilize their moods, medications to address depression and other conditions...yet people expect the average citizen (Texas in this instance) to be level headed and properly guided enough to carry guns anyandeverywhere; and be permitted to decipher when the gun should be used in split second decisions just because they have a layperson level of training and perhaps some target practice at a gun range?

On the other side, it has been said that when in a fight for survival, human's animal instincts kick in and it is "do or die." That is wonderful if action is all people expect. That is horrible if the PROPER action is what people expect.

But then they'll crawl away claiming they were amateurs and can't be expected to know any better.