Quota Additions

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I also don't know if there have been changes to the RFM over the years. As I understood it, back when I was in school the formula was:

invitations = (number of women still in recruitment/number of chapters) *(number of parties in the round/average return rate of the last three years)

So, if there were 500 women going to pref, and each woman could attend two prefs, and ten chapters, a chapter with a 100% return rate could issue 150 pref invitations, and a chapter with a 50% return rate could issue 300 invitations.

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi

the new RFM (release figure method) has a new formula which also takes into account the number of women likely to accept a bid from a chapter and restricts the number of preference inviations the strong recruiting chapter can issue even more that the old formula which was based more on statistical equality.

Yes, the new release figures force higher performing chapters to release far more than in DBB's example.

I do not know the actual formula, but it takes into account not just return rates but relative recruiting strength, which is probably calculated by priority rankings, or number of PNMs that put a certain chapter in their top 8 (or whatever number) for the next round. "Return rates" don't really show the whole picture. Though a weaker chapter may have 80% return, I guarantee not all 80% put that chapter in their top 8. They return because other chapters cut them and they need to have a full schedule.

Using DBB's numbers, 500 PNMs, 10 chapters, projected quota at 50, and 3 pref parties (I think DBB meant 3 though she wrote 2 because of her math)...

The highest performing chapters (those with 100% or close to it return rates) do not need to invite 3x projected quota to pref to make quota. It's probably more like 1.5x projected quota. Because top chapters are forced to trim their bid lists to only what is necessary to make quota, if other top chapters outcompete them in one year, they sometimes miss quota (though spots are usually filled quickly with snap bids).

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Using DBB's numbers, 500 PNMs, 10 chapters, projected quota at 50, and 3 pref parties (I think DBB meant 3 though she wrote 2 because of her math)...

Yup, typo.

It sounds like they are trying to make it as equitable as possible, which I certainly support, and I totally get your point about not punishing PNM's because a few chapters exceeded expectations.

But then I see something like these posts in the NPC recruitment results thread:

At CNU, these were the final numbers
Quota was 25 (I'm pretty sure)

Alpha Phi- 28
Gamma Phi Beta- 29
Alpha Sigma Alpha-29
Zeta Tau Alpha-29
Phi Mu- 30

WTF? How can every chapter take QA? Why isn't quota just 28?


And this:

W&L - Quota = 30
KKG - 24
KD - 30
Pi Phi - 37
Theta - 32
XO - 32
ADPi - 34

I can't help feeling like Kappa is getting kinda screwed, here. Fifteen women were placed as QA's. I know NOTHING about this campus, but are we really saying that of those fifteen women, none of them would be happy in the chapter that didn't make quota?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Yup, typo.

It sounds like they are trying to make it as equitable as possible, which I certainly support, and I totally get your point about not punishing PNM's because a few chapters exceeded expectations.

But then I see something like these posts in the NPC recruitment results thread:

At CNU, these were the final numbers
Quota was 25 (I'm pretty sure)

Alpha Phi- 28
Gamma Phi Beta- 29
Alpha Sigma Alpha-29
Zeta Tau Alpha-29
Phi Mu- 30

WTF? How can every chapter take QA? Why isn't quota just 28?


And this:

W&L - Quota = 30
KKG - 24
KD - 30
Pi Phi - 37
Theta - 32
XO - 32
ADPi - 34

I can't help feeling like Kappa is getting kinda screwed, here. Fifteen women were placed as QA's. I know NOTHING about this campus, but are we really saying that of those fifteen women, none of them would be happy in the chapter that didn't make quota?

The problem with your assumption is that by moving the Quota to a lower number you think that Kappa would suddenly make Quota. That is not necessarily true. Quota ranges are used to make the most chapters reach total and the most woman get placed. The woman who were QAs may not have had Kappa on their list for prefs and Kappa may be a top chapter at W&L who miscalculated when releasing women. I've seen several top chapters NOT reach total while "lower tier" chapters make way over so you can't assume anything. I don't know this campus, so I don't know if Kappa is struggling or not.

At CNU, changing Quota to 28 may have actually disrupted how many women were placed because of shifts in the lists. It's hard to look back and understand the reasoning when you can't see how the Quota ranges change the field.

[ladybug12]

With RFM you are given a number to rank on your first bid list...use 50 as an example. But, when everyone's lists are matched on the computer, 53 PNMS matched right away for all chapters or the vast majority of chapters.

The RFM specialist for that campus would then look at all the stats and decide if quota was 53, 54, etc....as a way to maximize the PNMs match potential. So, many times when quota is announced on GreekChat it is based on what the chapter was told to rank on the first bid list prior to matching...and is often not the case in the end. If one chapter only matched 40, then only 40 women were a possible match for them prior to quota additions. They have the opportuity to snap bid and COB. Other PNMs who maximized their choices but did not match initially are placed with another of their choices who has the next smallest membership number..even if they made quota.

RFM really does maximize the PNMs chances to match with a chapter. And I agree that usually the smaller chapters are able to pledge more than the old 5% standard..which helps them and the Greek system in the end.

[dukedg]

Sort of related question that I never thought of until now...

What happens if panhellenic estimates the lowest quota should be is 40, so chapters submit first bid lists in alphabetical order and then wants to lower quota? Is panhellenic then locked into a minimum quota of 40? If not, and they want to test out the effects of a lower quota, how do they know which PNMs would make it onto the chapter's first bid list if quota was only 37, let's say?

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by dukedg

Sort of related question that I never thought of until now...

What happens if panhellenic estimates the lowest quota should be is 40, so chapters submit first bid lists in alphabetical order and then wants to lower quota? Is panhellenic then locked into a minimum quota of 40? If not, and they want to test out the effects of a lower quota, how do they know which PNMs would make it onto the chapter's first bid list if quota was only 37, let's say?

There is a flex list that goes with the bid list and it's like the old second list and that is ranked also in the order in which you want them. And the chapters are giving a "quota range" and the list is submitted with the lower number and the flex list takes precedence after that to allow for a higher quota.

[ADqtPiMel]

Originally Posted by dukedg

Sort of related question that I never thought of until now...

What happens if panhellenic estimates the lowest quota should be is 40, so chapters submit first bid lists in alphabetical order and then wants to lower quota? Is panhellenic then locked into a minimum quota of 40? If not, and they want to test out the effects of a lower quota, how do they know which PNMs would make it onto the chapter's first bid list if quota was only 37, let's say?

While I suppose it could happen, it seems that the lowest quota estimate is usually way lower than what quota ends up being. For the chapter I work with, this year we were asked to set our A list at 33 and we ended up with 48 new members. I'm guessing panhellenic would probably call the chapter president and just ask.

As for PNMs going bidless rather than matching as a QA...I know that any woman who gets invited to pref at the chapter I advise is very much wanted, regardless of her position on the list. I'd hate to see PNMs who are liked by all of their preffing chapters go without a bid. And I really think the removal of the 5% QA cap HELPS smaller chapters, rather than harming them.

[carnation]

I can't help thinking of all the women who would now be Greek had QAs been in place back in the day. I knew so many who went to 2 prefs and didn't match, including direct legacies.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The problem with your assumption is that by moving the Quota to a lower number you think that Kappa would suddenly make Quota.

No, you misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that quota be changed. I am suggesting that, rather than a huge number of QA's, there are women who go bidless, and then have the chance to take another look at the chapters that are below quota or total.

I am also wondering if (but this is far more conjecture) women would think harder about what chapters wanted them as well as what chapters they want if they knew they weren't guaranteed a bid just by making it to pref.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

No, you misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that quota be changed. I am suggesting that, rather than a huge number of QA's, there are women who go bidless, and then have the chance to take another look at the chapters that are below quota or total.

That's where we disagree. Having women who rank all their pref chapers go bidless because of a strict cap on QAs seems totally unfair. I don't feel bad for the women who suicide or rank 2/3 chapters if they don't get a bid, because you're not eligible to be a QA then. Having QAs is an incentive for the PNM who has a "bottom" chapter as one of her pref chapters to rank it, because she's guaranteed a bid somewhere, and at some schools, it may be her one good shot at going Greek.

Going back to my example with a PNM being invited back to all top chapters for pref, if all she has left is top chapters, she probably does fit into a top chapter. Just because she got numerically screwed shouldn't mean her options should be the chapters who didn't make quota or are not at total. Chances are she isn't going to want them, and they might not want her. Nobody wins.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I am also wondering if (but this is far more conjecture) women would think harder about what chapters wanted them as well as what chapters they want if they knew they weren't guaranteed a bid just by making it to pref.

I guess it's a chicken-egg scenario, but because a PNM from anywhere on the bid list could match thanks to QAs, chapters that invite a woman to pref DO want that woman in their chapter. Just because a PNM is at the "bottom" of the bid list does not mean that she is not wanted, and the difference between being on the first bid list and the bottom may be relatively small, especially for a top tier chapter with a shorter bid list. QAs tend to benefit the middle and low tier chapters because their bid lists are longer than top tier chapters.

I believe Kappa is a strong, popular chapter at W&L. They may have had a dip from past high-performance, therefore having to release a lot more women than other chapters, which doesn't give them much room for error. They will probably snap bid to quota and be fine.