Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford of Southern Arizona Shot At Constituent Event

[BAckbOwlsgIrl]

Pam Simon, aid to Representative Gabrielle Gifford's aide is an AOII, University of Washington, 1960's. Not sure exact dates.
She is hospitalized right now.

My thoughts go out to all the victims. Words, not weaponry, are the answer.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by BAckbOwlsgIrl

Pam Simon, aid to Representative Gabrielle Gifford's aide is an AOII, University of Washington, 1960's. Not sure exact dates.
She is hospitalized right now.

My thoughts go out to all the victims. Words, not weaponry, are the answer.

Thank you for this information. I'll spread the word.

[DaemonSeid]

The 9 year old killed was born on 9/11

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

The 9 year old killed was born on 9/11

In many ways, this makes me more sad than anything else. Poor little girl. My heart goes out to her parents who must be crushed.

[KSUViolet06]

Ugh. So terrible. Child loss is crushing for parents.

[AOII Angel]

They've just reported that Rep. Giffords has woken up and is speaking. She has recognized her husband. She is very, very fortunate (if you can say that after having been shot in the head in the first place.)

[AZTheta]

Angela, this is great news. I expect there will be many ups and downs for her (I'm thinking about the brain swelling, etc.). UMC has a great SLP who happens to be an AXO so if Rep. Giffords needs speech therapy, she'll be getting it from the best!

Keeping everyone in prayer. Any news on your AOII sister or any of the other victims?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AzTheta

Angela, this is great news. I expect there will be many ups and downs for her (I'm thinking about the brain swelling, etc.). UMC has a great SLP who happens to be an AXO so if Rep. Giffords needs speech therapy, she'll be getting it from the best!

Keeping everyone in prayer. Any news on your AOII sister or any of the other victims?

Everything I've found on line says that Pam Simon is doing well. UMC reports five people in critical condition. There are just so many victims, I don't know how to check for them all.

As for Rep. Giffords, I suspect she has a very long road ahead of her. From all my experience with head injuries (penetrating and blunt) during my two years of General Surgery at LSU, early status like this is great, but swelling can change things in an instant. The whole goal over the next 48-72 hours will be to prevent secondary injury from swelling. It's so hard to know how much damage will ultimately be there. My mentor from Radiology residency did her surgery internship at UMC and says that the neurosurgeons and trauma surgeons are excellent, so I'm sure she is getting top notch care.

[Chicago88]

"His motivation was not immediately known, but Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik described him as mentally unstable and possibly acting with an accomplice."

I get so tired of the "mentally ill, or pleading insanity" excuse. In this case he might be mentally unstable and I'm sorry, maybe I'm a bit brash, but insane or not I believe they are fully aware of what they are doing and it's scary because they believe its acceptable. I still will never understand why people believe that violence or death will change anything. It solves nothing and the government is going to continue to carry on with their policies, ideology and so forth. I find it extremely sad that anyone would ever have to experience such tragedy. No one deserves that.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Chicago88

"His motivation was not immediately known, but Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik described him as mentally unstable and possibly acting with an accomplice."

I get so tired of the "mentally ill, or pleading insanity" excuse. In this case he might be a loon but I'm sorry, maybe I'm a bit brash but insane or not I believe they are fully aware of what they are doing and it's scary because they believe its acceptable. I still will never understand why these people believe that violence or death will change anything. It solves nothing and the government is going to continue to carry on with their policies, ideology and so forth. I find it extremely sad that anyone would ever have to experience such tragedy. No one deserves that.

Very few people succeed with an insanity defense. Mental illness is not the same as legal insanity either. It is actually possible to be mentally ill and legally sane. They are not the same concept. I'm not a psychiatrist, but many of his rants are delusional with anti-government fixations. This is very suspicious for paranoid schizophrenia. Schizophrenics very rarely are violent, but like normal people, they can be.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by Chicago88

"His motivation was not immediately known, but Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik described him as mentally unstable and possibly acting with an accomplice."

I get so tired of the "mentally ill, or pleading insanity" excuse. In this case he might be mentally unstable and I'm sorry, maybe I'm a bit brash, but insane or not I believe they are fully aware of what they are doing and it's scary because they believe its acceptable. I still will never understand why people believe that violence or death will change anything. It solves nothing and the government is going to continue to carry on with their policies, ideology and so forth. I find it extremely sad that anyone would ever have to experience such tragedy. No one deserves that.

You are (understandably) applying your own perspective (and experience) to something that very few people outside of psychiatry truly understand - mental illness, most especially thought disorders. Would that it was that simple, or worked that way. But it is not.

You cannot assume that your reality/belief system/value system is, in any way/shape/form, anything like that of a person who exhibits the type of delusional and disordered thinking that the suspect has exhibited. Nowhere in any of his rants or writings did the suspect indicate that his shooting of government officials would change anything whatsoever. His thoughts are largely incoherent. Officials from the local community college have come forward with information regarding the bizarre behaviors the suspect exhibited which resulted in his expulsion from the community college.

Having evaluated people who suffer from a variety of emotional disturbances and mental illnesses, I will say that their motives are seldom if ever understandable through the filters that most of us use and are comfortable with. Thought disorders are baffling, and paranoia is not something that can be reasoned with. Applying the standard of "fully aware of what one is doing" is challenging, even for the experts.

[Chicago88]

I'm glad few people get away with it because I feel that people tend to use it as an easy way out. There's an extremely fine line between any mental disorder. Youre absolutely correct AZTheta, I'm no psychologist, nor am I knowledgeable on these topics. I can only imagine the intricate, complex, and difficult concept to understand. I did make a general statement and I dont think I meant him in particular thinking that his killlings would change anything. It's a tricky way to say it because what is true for one person isn't true for another and its hard not to make generalized statements that apply to this man because we don't know him or the way his mind works. I think what I was getting at is some think that "making an example of someone" will make a change. I cannot apply my belief system to anyone elses because we all are wired differently, I personally feel people like him are can be so easily influenced but influenced in all the wrong ways. It bothers me because my brother is a political science major in his senior year and I cant even begin to describe how he has changed. He has become so critical and judgemental, almost hateful and I really feel like he has been influenced by these professors and these polysci classes.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Chicago88

I'm glad few people get away with it because I feel that people tend to use it as an easy way out. There's an extremely fine line between any mental disorder. People like him are so easily influenced but influenced by all the wrong things. It bothers me because my brother is a political science major in his senior year and I cant even begin to describe how he has changed. He has become so critical and judgemental, almost hateful and I really feel like he has been influenced by these professors and these polysci classes.

I know what you mean, but then again, the cases where people claim mental illness also get a lot of media attention. Sorry about your brother. Politics can be very polarizing. It often is hard for people to put those beliefs away at the end of a discussion and just have normal conversations. It happens to the best of us when we believe passionately about something. I think today is a really good reason for all of us to rethink how we frame our political discourse...everyone of us.

[AZTheta]

Chicago88, we do not know what influenced the suspect; we truly do not. That was the point I was trying to make. Thought disorders are, for the neurotypical/sane mind, very difficult to understand. That's why we are "afraid" of "crazy" people. And more and more information is coming to light that points in the direction that AOIIAngel highlighted earlier (at least I think you did, the paranoia/delusional thinking direction, if I'm wrong I'll edit this).

Cannot make sense out of the senseless.

[Chicago88]

I understand AzTheta, I'm not saying we know what influenced him. I'm sure it's something we will never know or understand much less want to know or understand. I understand what youre saying. The point I was trying to make was that I think that people can be influenced, regardless of what it is, who it is, etc especially when it comes to political matters/ideologies/theories, new and old.

AOII- I completely agree. The politics conversation ranks up there with the religion conversation with me. If we don't try to force our opinions on someone then thats fine. I believe that argument is one that will never be one due to the fact that we all have different views on what is "right and wrong" in a political sense. I agree to disagree when it comes to these things.