The most weird or stupid news story you heard today.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by LucyKKG

Oh, wasn't this posted on here? I read something about San Francisco talking about banning circumcision. Ummm...what?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_783191.html

They'll try. The Happy Meal ban was vetoed btw.

Circumcision is a tricky topic. On one hand it's fairly small, has low complications, and some very small medical benefits and much stronger cultural or religious benefits. On the other hand it's elective surgery done on an infant without his ability to consent, frequently with little/no anesthetic if procedures haven't changed much over the years, and it has long lasting effects throughout his adult life.

*All because Americans think foreskin is squicky? :-/

*Religious circumcisions exempted from the last comment, however they still have to deal with the first paragraph.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Circumcision is a tricky topic. On one hand it's fairly small, has low complications, and some very small medical benefits and much stronger cultural or religious benefits. On the other hand it's elective surgery done on an infant without his ability to consent, frequently with little/no anesthetic if procedures haven't changed much over the years, and it has long lasting effects throughout his adult life.

*All because Americans think foreskin is squicky? :-/

*Religious circumcisions exempted from the last comment, however they still have to deal with the first paragraph.

It should be up to the parents, not the government. AFAIK parents are asked if they want their son circumcised, the hospital won't do it if the parents don't want it done. Not everyone practices good hygiene and I've heard of uncircumcised guys getting urinary tract infections from not keeping their junk clean.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

It should be up to the parents, not the government. AFAIK parents are asked if they want their son circumcised, the hospital won't do it if the parents don't want it done. Not everyone practices good hygiene and I've heard of uncircumcised guys getting urinary tract infections from not keeping their junk clean.

Yep. Parents make all kinds of serious and sometimes life altering medical choices on behalf of their children. And it might be elective (aside from those who want it removed for religious reasons), but where is the line drawn? Parents can choose whether or not to vaccinate their children, so surely they have a choice here.

And yes, some people find it icky. I do, I can't help it. Possibly because I have dated an uncircumcised guy that was sometimes pretty nonchalant about his hygiene.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Yep. Parents make all kinds of serious and sometimes life altering medical choices on behalf of their children. And it might be elective (aside from those who want it removed for religious reasons), but where is the line drawn? Parents can choose whether or not to vaccinate their children, so surely they have a choice here.

And yes, some people find it icky. I do, I can't help it. Possibly because I have dated an uncircumcised guy that was sometimes pretty nonchalant about his hygiene.

Vaccination - saves lives, prevents illness. People who don't vaccinate their children without physician approval and oversight - for legit medical complications - are irresponsible and putting many people at risk.

Circumcision for the vast majority of American families is an elective procedure that is entirely too concerned about what their son's penis looks like when he's a grown up. Anecdotal evidence aside, there's nothing less clean about a guy with foreskin, there's only guys who can't be bothered to wash thoroughly.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

It should be up to the parents, not the government. AFAIK parents are asked if they want their son circumcised, the hospital won't do it if the parents don't want it done. Not everyone practices good hygiene and I've heard of uncircumcised guys getting urinary tract infections from not keeping their junk clean.

The only reason people are ok with voluntary circumcision in the US is because it is done so commonly here. Everyone does it so many people don't think twice about it. I don't believe Europe has higher incidences of UTIs than America so maybe it's more that American families don't teach their uncircumcised sons how to wash. We're kind of an aberration in this particular elective surgical field and not acknowledging that serves no one well.

We would think poorly of parents who did pretty much any other type of elective surgery on every single fe/male child, right? So why is circumcision the exception to that? No reasons other than culture.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Vaccination - saves lives, prevents illness. People who don't vaccinate their children without physician approval and oversight - for legit medical complications - are irresponsible and putting many people at risk.

Circumcision for the vast majority of American families is an elective procedure that is entirely too concerned about what their son's penis looks like when he's a grown up. Anecdotal evidence aside, there's nothing less clean about a guy with foreskin, there's only guys who can't be bothered to wash thoroughly.


The only reason people are ok with voluntary circumcision in the US is because it is done so commonly here. Everyone does it so many people don't think twice about it. I don't believe Europe has higher incidences of UTIs than America so maybe it's more that American families don't teach their uncircumcised sons how to wash. We're kind of an aberration in this particular elective surgical field and not acknowledging that serves no one well.

We would think poorly of parents who did pretty much any other type of elective surgery on every single fe/male child, right? So why is circumcision the exception to that? No reasons other than culture.

But what is the risk, here? How many of these procedures have mishaps, out of the who knows how many performed every day? I guess my take is, is it really that big of a deal? Were there an equivalent surgery for females (that basically everyone in the country has done, is safe) I don't think I'd feel any differently.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Vaccination - saves lives, prevents illness. People who don't vaccinate their children without physician approval and oversight - for legit medical complications - are irresponsible and putting many people at risk.

Well the same can be said for circumcision in regards to HIV/AIDS. Ultimately I don't think the gov should make circumcisions illegal, It should be up to the parents no matter what their reasoning is or isn't.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Well the same can be said for circumcision in regards to HIV/AIDS. Ultimately I don't think the gov should make circumcisions illegal, It should be up to the parents no matter what their reasoning is or isn't.

That's the first time I've heard that.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

That's the first time I've heard that.

From the World Health Org

There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%. Three randomized controlled trials have shown that male circumcision provided by well trained health professionals in properly equipped settings is safe. WHO/UNAIDS recommendations emphasize that male circumcision should be considered an efficacious intervention for HIV prevention in countries and regions with heterosexual epidemics, high HIV and low male circumcision prevalence. Male circumcision provides only partial protection, and therefore should be only one element of a comprehensive HIV prevention package which includes:

http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/maleci.../en/index.html

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Well the same can be said for circumcision in regards to HIV/AIDS. Ultimately I don't think the gov should make circumcisions illegal, It should be up to the parents no matter what their reasoning is or isn't.

What's the connection there?