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10-09-2010, 11:38 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: TX
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How bout we combine the two subjects? Let's draft the poverty stricken into the military thereby using military funds to house/clothe/feed/pay the poor. Yay. I win. Me for president in 2010.
But in all seriousness I agree with what KSUViolet says, just sending someone a food stamp or a stipend every month isn't going to end poverty; To start we need better paying jobs for people.
Last edited by PiKA2001; 10-09-2010 at 11:42 PM.
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10-09-2010, 11:49 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiKA2001
How bout we combine the two subjects? Let's draft the poverty stricken into the military thereby using military funds to house/clothe/feed/pay the poor. Yay. I win. Me for president in 2010.
But in all seriousness I agree with what KSUViolet says, just sending someone a food stamp or a stipend every month isn't going to end poverty; To start we need better paying jobs for people.
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Terribad idea. 
We really need the whole gamut in my opinion, services, jobs, education, healthcare, all of it.
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From the SigmaTo the K!
Polyamorous, Pansexual and Proud of it!
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10-11-2010, 02:34 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Occupied Territory CSA
Posts: 2,237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiKA2001
But in all seriousness I agree with what KSUViolet says, just sending someone a food stamp or a stipend every month isn't going to end poverty; To start we need better paying jobs for people.
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Or we need to get rid of the governments intervention in the marketplace which has caused poverty.
That would be a start.
(and Nickel and Dimed lacked logic, perspective, and consistency. It was just bad.)
__________________
Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car – accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance – it happens very far away – way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
Last edited by Elephant Walk; 10-11-2010 at 02:45 PM.
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10-11-2010, 06:17 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Walk
Or we need to get rid of the governments intervention in the marketplace which has caused poverty.
That would be a start.
(and Nickel and Dimed lacked logic, perspective, and consistency. It was just bad.)
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How does the government create poverty through marketplace intervention? In a truly "free market" would there be 0 government intervention? Is a minimum wage a government intervention that should be abolished?
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From the SigmaTo the K!
Polyamorous, Pansexual and Proud of it!
It Gets Better
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10-11-2010, 06:51 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille
How does the government create poverty through marketplace intervention? In a truly "free market" would there be 0 government intervention? Is a minimum wage a government intervention that should be abolished?
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Minimum wage is an example of government intervention in the marketplace. It propagates racism of the worst kind, denies the least educated/experienced the opportunity to gain education/experience, increases unemployment, and marginalizes the poorest.
So, yes that would be one of them.
__________________
Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car – accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance – it happens very far away – way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
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10-11-2010, 06:53 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 14,146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Walk
Minimum wage is an example of government intervention in the marketplace. It propagates racism of the worst kind, denies the least educated/experienced the opportunity to gain education/experience, increases unemployment, and marginalizes the poorest.
So, yes that would be one of them.
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@ the bold: How so? Not being snarky. I'm genuinely curious why you feel that way.
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10-11-2010, 07:17 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow
@ the bold: How so? Not being snarky. I'm genuinely curious why you feel that way.
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Racism
Walter E. Williams came up with this simple work in theory:
If you went to a restaraunt and on the menu, you saw that the filet mignon and the hamburger was the same price. Naturally, you would prefer the higher grade dish -- the filet mignon. One would normally be hesitant to purchase the filet mignon due to the price. But when they are the same price, there is no reason not to.
Now apply this concept to the archetypal "racist white business owner" who has the ability to hire either a white person or a black person, who are both of equal strengths, weaknesses, education, etc. A black person who may come from a more disadvantaged community is likely to work for less in order to prove themselves and move through the ranks. When both are on the same wage scale (a minimum wage), there is no opportunity cost for racism and the "racist white business owner" can quickly hire the white worker with no qualms in his business sense.
Hate to quote a musician, but from one country-rock band:
"Ain't about no cotton fields or cotton picking lies
Ain't about the races, the crying shame
To the fucking rich man all poor people look the same"
Allegedly, African-American and white unemployment was practically equal before minimum wage. While that does not mean that minimum wage necessarily caused the disparity, I haven't ventured a guess at another cause.
denies the least educated/experienced the opportunity to gain education/experience
This is quite simple. The least experienced would (at least theoretically) be willing to work for less in order to gain employment and thus gain experience and eventually gain a greater wage. Thus, the minimum wage acts as an entry-barrier into the work marketplace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille
Without a minimum wage what would stop the underpayment of workers when there is high unemployment?
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You would have to define underpayment.
Quote:
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Are two jobs that pay $3.00 an hour actually better than 1 that pays $6.00 an hour?
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That decision isn't mine, it's the workers.
__________________
Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car – accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance – it happens very far away – way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
Last edited by Elephant Walk; 10-11-2010 at 07:24 PM.
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10-11-2010, 07:28 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 14,146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Walk
Racism
Walter E. Williams came up with this simple work in theory:
If you went to a restaraunt and on the menu, you saw that the filet mignon and the hamburger was the same price. Naturally, you would prefer the higher grade dish -- the filet mignon. One would normally be hesitant to purchase the filet mignon due to the price. But when they are the same price, there is no reason not to.
Now apply this concept to the archetypal "racist white business owner" who has the ability to hire either a white person or a black person, who are both of equal strengths, weaknesses, education, etc. A black person who may come from a more disadvantaged community is likely to work for less in order to prove themselves and move through the ranks. When both are on the same wage scale (a minimum wage), there is no opportunity cost for racism and the "racist white business owner" can quickly hire the white worker with no qualms in his business sense.
Hate to quote a musician, but from one country-rock band:
"Ain't about no cotton fields or cotton picking lies
Ain't about the races, the crying shame
To the fucking rich man all poor people look the same"
Allegedly, African-American and white unemployment was practically equal before minimum wage. While that does not mean that minimum wage necessarily caused the disparity, I haven't ventured a guess at another cause.
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Interesting.
I'm glad you qualified that with "in theory," since minimum wage doesn't exist in a vacuum. Other things (affirmative action, etc) help to mitigate situations like this.
Quote:
denies the least educated/experienced the opportunity to gain education/experience
This is quite simple. The least experienced would (at least theoretically) be willing to work for less in order to gain employment and thus gain experience and eventually gain a greater wage. Thus, the minimum wage acts as an entry-barrier into the work marketplace.
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I am not getting this point, though. Minimum wage in and of itself doesn't act as a barrier -- it's actions like the one in the previously quoted section. Hiring someone on at minimum wage does not prevent that person from gaining experience and moving up within the company.
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10-11-2010, 07:09 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Walk
Minimum wage is an example of government intervention in the marketplace. It propagates racism of the worst kind, denies the least educated/experienced the opportunity to gain education/experience, increases unemployment, and marginalizes the poorest.
So, yes that would be one of them.
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Without a minimum wage what would stop the underpayment of workers when there is high unemployment?
Are two jobs that pay $3.00 an hour actually better than 1 that pays $6.00 an hour?
__________________
From the SigmaTo the K!
Polyamorous, Pansexual and Proud of it!
It Gets Better
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10-12-2010, 05:24 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 14,146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da.most
You have atttended too many angry black men rallies.
Minimum wage does not deny anyone the opportunity to get an education. The real problem is your people don't care about education and they usually quit school.
If we did away with minimum wage do you think your opportunities will increase? If so then how?
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*cue Alanis Morissette*
It's like raaaaaaain on your wedding day....
EW: Make sure you send in your Black People dues by next Thursday.
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10-12-2010, 05:28 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: but I am le tired...
Posts: 7,283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow
EW: Make sure you send in your Black People dues by next Thursday.
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Dead.
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10-12-2010, 05:29 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow
*cue Alanis Morissette*
It's like raaaaaaain on your wedding day....
EW: Make sure you send in your Black People dues by next Thursday.
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 Elephant Walk was only talking about comparative advantage and the economy. How'd that sneaky race get in there? LOL.
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10-12-2010, 05:29 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: TX
Posts: 3,760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow
*cue Alanis Morissette*
It's like raaaaaaain on your wedding day....
EW: Make sure you send in your Black People dues by next Thursday.
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HA!
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10-12-2010, 05:49 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Occupied Territory CSA
Posts: 2,237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da.most
You have atttended too many angry black men rallies.
Minimum wage does not deny anyone the opportunity to get an education. The real problem is your people don't care about education and they usually quit school.
If we did away with minimum wage do you think your opportunities will increase? If so then how?
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That's the definition of iroooooony.
__________________
Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car – accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance – it happens very far away – way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
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