How Moms Should Treat Their Legacy Daughters

[turqwind]

Just saying as a mother of two wonderful teenaged children, are you sure the girl wasn't "stretching the wool" a little bit? I agree if the writer really likes this girl and wants to write her a rec, call the Mom and offer. The worst thing that can happen is that you find out Mom is as wacky as she appears and write the rec anyway. Mom may have been joking or just out of touch or Daughter may be a little bit of a drama queen who has watched too many movies/t.v. shows about sororities. Remember, we are talking about eighteen year olds. Yes, in-house legacies get cut at SEC and other schools. Legacies don't count for what they used to.

[aephi alum]

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

Even this is no longer true at every chapter and every school now.

Really? It's still AEPhi's policy, unless something has changed that I don't know about. (Note that I went to a school where recruitment was not super-competitive. In my entire time as an active, I never even saw a rec. A legacy would pretty much have had to torch the rush room to get cut after open houses.) Is this a side effect of the current release figures method, or is it because there are so many more legacies attending college now than there were 20 or 30 or 40 years ago?

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I didn't think anybody but NPHC parents said they wouldn't pay for any other organization

You'd be surprised

One of my fellow chapter founders has an aunt who is an AEPhi. She didn't quite go so far as to refuse to pay her daughters' dues if they joined sororities other than AEPhi, but she would not permit them to apply to any college that didn't have an AEPhi chapter - which meant they were forbidden to apply to a lot of excellent schools. For all her efforts, none of her daughters actually went AEPhi.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by aephi alum

One of my fellow chapter founders has an aunt who is an AEPhi. She didn't quite go so far as to refuse to pay her daughters' dues if they joined sororities other than AEPhi, but she would not permit them to apply to any college that didn't have an AEPhi chapter - which meant they were forbidden to apply to a lot of excellent schools. For all her efforts, none of her daughters actually went AEPhi.

FWIW, I wasn't permitted to go any school without my legacy chapter - and then I went ADPi instead.

I suppose I'm a bit guilty of this: I've told daughters of close chapter friends that, if they go ADPi, they get the choice of my pins. Here's hoping that this is the year that I lose a pin!

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by honeychile

FWIW, I wasn't permitted to go any school without my legacy chapter - and then I went ADPi instead.

I suppose I'm a bit guilty of this: I've told daughters of close chapter friends that, if they go ADPi, they get the choice of my pins. Here's hoping that this is the year that I lose a pin!

Bribery versus extortion?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Splash

I have a question for you all about legacies. If I knew some super important legacy was going through (example, her twin sister is currently in the chapter, her mom was in the chapter, her great ancestor started that particular chapter of the organization, etc), I would probably be hard pressed to cut her. As long as she wasn't rude and obnoxious, the fact that maybe she didn't have a good conversation flow with one of the members wouldn't make me want to cut her, while as for any other girl it would be. There are no guarentees, obviously but I think a huge connection like that is more important. This is not the situation for all people, but I wouldn't, would you?

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

I would assume it's a combination of rfm and the geometric increase in the numbers of legacies with each generation. When you have more legacy pnms than invitations available for the second round of recruitment, you have no choice but to cut some legacies. I assume that most groups' policies are to provide some kind of special consideration for legacies, but sometimes automatically passing a pnm on to the second round is no longer possible.

^^^This.

I tend to think that as long as a legacy isn't glaringly terrible or an obvious bad fit, then she deserves a chance. If there are spots avail. and the legacies seems to fit well, I don't think anyone is saying that chapters should just go cutting them just because.

However, the decision is not so cut and dry at bigger schools. At some SEC schools, there are chapters that could fill an entire NM class with JUST legacies. So you just have to start cutting them.

There may not be anything wrong with any of them. In fact, most of them might be excellent young ladies, but you just cannot keep them all and expect to have room for non-legacies as well.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by aephi alum

Really? It's still AEPhi's policy, unless something has changed that I don't know about. (Note that I went to a school where recruitment was not super-competitive. In my entire time as an active, I never even saw a rec. A legacy would pretty much have had to torch the rush room to get cut after open houses.) Is this a side effect of the current release figures method, or is it because there are so many more legacies attending college now than there were 20 or 30 or 40 years ago?

I would assume it's a combination of rfm and the geometric increase in the numbers of legacies with each generation. When you have more legacy pnms than invitations available for the second round of recruitment, you have no choice but to cut some legacies. I assume that most groups' policies are to provide some kind of special consideration for legacies, but sometimes automatically passing a pnm on to the second round is no longer possible.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by aephi alum

Really? It's still AEPhi's policy, unless something has changed that I don't know about. (Note that I went to a school where recruitment was not super-competitive. In my entire time as an active, I never even saw a rec. A legacy would pretty much have had to torch the rush room to get cut after open houses.) Is this a side effect of the current release figures method, or is it because there are so many more legacies attending college now than there were 20 or 30 or 40 years ago?

Giving a legacy an invite to round 2 sounds is a common policy among many NPCs. However, chapters with lots of legacies going through recruitment who have to make steep cuts after round 1 are probably given a pass on it. I imagine most other chapters would still adhere to that policy if they don't have many legacies going through and/or they don't have to make steep cuts after round 1.

[carnation]

Well, it's easy to discuss how a mom ought to handle the discussion of legacies with her daughter. Most of the Greek moms I know, though, haven't been deeply involved in Greek life since college so they don't know about the current situation of RFM/huge legacy numbers. I live in a big town but until 2005, the closest national Greek system was an hour away so hardly any local Greeks--and there are a lot here-- were physically involved in a Greek system. Many paid their dues and/or sent money to their chapters but it was (is) a hassle getting to the nearest chapter or alum group (which might be one that focuses on socialization and doesn't discuss recruitment unless friends or relatives are rushing). They got their magazines but now a lot of them are published online so people don't bother to read them. Also, they've spent the last several years raising kids and working and Greek life wasn't really on their radar.

Therefore, even though the Greek Life Office usually sends out a pamphlet to parents about the current situation re: legacies, it doesn't really hit home unless the legacy group cuts the daughter. Wonderful women who assumed their groups would pledge their daughters have been blindsided because back in the day, sororities found a way to pledge their good legacies. Often, only the shadier ones were released.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by carnation

Well, it's easy to discuss how a mom ought to handle the discussion of legacies with her daughter. Most of the Greek moms I know, though, haven't been deeply involved in Greek life since college so they don't know about the current situation of RFM/huge legacy numbers. I live in a big town but until 2005, the closest national Greek system was an hour away so hardly any local Greeks--and there are a lot here-- were physically involved in a Greek system. Many paid their dues and/or sent money to their chapters but it was (is) a hassle getting to the nearest chapter or alum group (which might be one that focuses on socialization and doesn't discuss recruitment unless friends or relatives are rushing). They got their magazines but now a lot of them are published online so people don't bother to read them. Also, they've spent the last several years raising kids and working and Greek life wasn't really on their radar.

Therefore, even though the Greek Life Office usually sends out a pamphlet to parents about the current situation re: legacies, it doesn't really hit home unless the legacy group cuts the daughter. Wonderful women who assumed their groups would pledge their daughters have been blindsided because back in the day, sororities found a way to pledge their good legacies. Often, only the shadier ones were released.

I understand that, Carnation, but you should also know that this causes a lot of heartache for those daughters because of these uninformed mothers. Times have changed, and we need to find a way to get this information to these alumnae so that their daughters don't suffer the consequences.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

Speaking from my experience, our issues were almost always with Helga VonHeli, the alumna who has essentially forgotten she's a Pi Pi Pi and completely abandoned every alumna responsibility until we cut her pretty perfect princess.

True. And I'd like to see a shift in those schools with 3 billion legacies (exaggerate? Me?) towards preferring legacies of active alumnae.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I understand that, Carnation, but you should also know that this causes a lot of heartache for those daughters because of these uninformed mothers. Times have changed, and we need to find a way to get this information to these alumnae so that their daughters don't suffer the consequences.

Exactly. It was a lot easier to get into a lot of competitive colleges back in the day too. Haven't we heard about HOPE on this board a million billion times and how it's made it so much harder to get into UGA?

If parents can get their heads out of their asses and figure that out, they can certainly do the same with sorority membership. Especially since many of them seem to be treating it as a commodity, a thing their daughters need to check off to prove they were "raised right" rather than lifetime sisterhood.

Drolefille - when you were gone we had a thread about "weighting" legacies - for example, the longtime alum chapter president's daughter gets more of a preference than random alum's daughter. I don't think it's fair or desirable, for many reasons. There are LOTS of reasons people aren't involved as alums -one of the most basic ones being there might not be an alum chapter near them. Also, something like that just smacks a little too much of bartering - if I give $1000 to the Foundation, my daughter is higher up on the bid list - for my taste.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Drolefille - when you were gone we had a thread about "weighting" legacies - for example, the longtime alum chapter president's daughter gets more of a preference than random alum's daughter. I don't think it's fair or desirable, for many reasons. There are LOTS of reasons people aren't involved as alums -one of the most basic ones being there might not be an alum chapter near them. Also, something like that just smacks a little too much of bartering - if I give $1000 to the Foundation, my daughter is higher up on the bid list - for my taste.

I get that and I wouldn't want anything that detailed. More like, has donated some amount to the foundation, active in an alum chapter or other volunteer work with the sorority, etc. It shouldn't be well Suzie's mom donated 3k and Penny's mom only donated 1k.

Nor should it guarantee a bid, but it's a way to show that mom, aunt, grandma, whatever has actually been engaged with the sorority over the past 20 years. If it existed (or exists) I'd really just want there to be "alumna" and "active alumna" and have some really basic level of support that equals "active." And I say that as someone who doesn't meet that status now due to my situation/location/etc.

But eh, don't want to rehash that if it's been done, I'll go thread hunting later.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I understand that, Carnation, but you should also know that this causes a lot of heartache for those daughters because of these uninformed mothers. Times have changed, and we need to find a way to get this information to these alumnae so that their daughters don't suffer the consequences.

I agree! And they've changed very quickly--we've seen the big changes since maybe 2000?--but I don't know how on earth we can reach the masses.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by carnation

I agree! And they've changed very quickly--we've seen the big changes since maybe 2000?--but I don't know how on earth we can reach the masses.

I know. It's a big problem. I feel sorry for the girls who go in with a false sense of security.

[Jen]

Originally Posted by turqwind

I agree if the writer really likes this girl and wants to write her a rec, call the Mom and offer.

I'm really curious why the mom has to be involved at all? This is an adult going to college. The mom being asked shouldn't even be on anyone's radar. They should be asking the PNM if they'd like a rec written for them!