Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by starang21

ok, rounding this back to illegal immigration....

approximately 81 percent of illegal immigrants are of hispanic descent.

and of that 81 percent, almost 75 percent are from mexico.

meaning that approximately 7 million of the 12-13 million illegals in this country are from mexico.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/61.pdf

And while being hispanic is not probable cause, speaking only Spanish would be probably get you there.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Kevin

And while being hispanic is not probable cause, speaking only Spanish would be probably get you there.

Why? A lot of Puerto Ricans for instance can't speak English to save their lives. Also remember that the United States does NOT have an official language.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Why? A lot of Puerto Ricans for instance can't speak English to save their lives. Also remember that the United States does NOT have an official language.

that still doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority of the US legal population communicates in english. that's why you don't see street and traffic signs in spanish.

can't and won't are two different things. just because one chooses not to, doesn't mean they can't.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by starang21

that still doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority of the US legal population communicates in english. that's why you don't see street and traffic signs in spanish.

can't and won't are two different things. just because one chooses not to, doesn't mean they can't.

I will not argue that English isn't the de facto national language of the United States. However that being said it holds no legal status in this country. So using the justification "He doesn't speak English, he must be illegal." doesn't make sense. And yes I do know that can't and won't aren't the same. But I also do know people who's control of English is near non existent and would probably be the same as most Mexicans who live near the border or have a lot of contact with Americans if not worst.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I will not argue that English isn't the de facto national language of the United States. However that being said it holds no legal status in this country. So using the justification "He doesn't speak English, he must be illegal." And Yes I do know that can't and won't aren't the same. But I also do know people who's control of English is near non existent and would probably be the same as most Mexicans who live near the border or have a lot of contact with Americans if not worst. So when I say there are Americans that can't communicate well in English, I do know what I ma talking about, especially the older generations.

it can certainly fall under reasonable suspicion.


again, can't and won't aren't the same thing. and can't communicate well is way different from can't communicate at all.

hence in order to become a naturalized citizen, one must have basic skills in the english language. the same with getting a green card.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Why? A lot of Puerto Ricans for instance can't speak English to save their lives. Also remember that the United States does NOT have an official language.

It's not illegal to smell like marijuana either, or get into a car after spilling a glass of whiskey on yourself--it's just going to get your car searched 100% of the time.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's not illegal to smell like marijuana either, or get into a car after spilling a glass of whiskey on yourself--it's just going to get your car searched 100% of the time.

I don't think smelling like alcohol or marijuana can be equated to looking hispanic or not speaking English.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I don't think smelling like alcohol or marijuana can be equated to looking hispanic or not speaking English.

Not speaking English is commonly associated with being illegally here. Smelling like marijuana is commonly associated with being under the influence or in possession. Smelling like whiskey is associated with being drunk.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Not speaking English is commonly associated with being illegally here. Smelling like marijuana is commonly associated with being under the influence or in possession. Smelling like whiskey is associated with being drunk.

So my grandparents who are natural born American citizens have to worry about being considered illegal because they don't speak English? If fluency in the English language was required, then I can see it being used as probable cause. But it is not. If using "they don't speak English" is sufficient as probable cause, then it is providing different levels or justice to different populations.

ETA:

Originally Posted by Kevin

It doesn't have to. Correlation doesn't have to definitely mean the crime is afoot, it just has to lead to a reasonable suspicion. If you've encountered someone who doesn't speak English and doesn't have identification or insurance, you definitely can have the reasonable belief that this person is illegal and can investigate whether they are.

Well yes that is true. But that if you pulled over a car for some reason. That does not equal thinking somebody might be illegal and stopping them asking for proof of citizenship, which a lot of people don't even carry with them on a day to day basis.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

So my grandparents who are natural born American citizens have to worry about being considered illegal because they don't speak English? If fluency in the English language was required, then I can see it being used as probable cause. But it is not. If using "they don't speak English" is sufficient as probable cause, then it is providing different levels or justice to different populations.

I really don't feel sorry for anyone who lives here and doesn't speak the language. Sorry. That's a choice, and if you choose that, sometimes it sucks to be you.

Well yes that is true. But that if you pulled over a car for some reason. That does not equal thinking somebody might be illegal and stopping them asking for proof of citizenship, which a lot of people don't even carry with them on a day to day basis.

The officer would have to have a reason to pull over the car first, e.g., speeding, then he would have to obtain probable cause to investigate citizenship, not just because he saw some brown folks in a car.