Arizona governor signs immigration bill

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Think of the exceptional cases that would be created, legal visitors or permanent residents who have their visa revoked, overstayed it, or otherwise broke the rules - maybe by working on a student visa - could/should their children's citizenship status be revoked as well?

Hell I'd rather GIVE citizenship to the near adults who were 4 years old when they came here, had no choice in the matter, and continued to not have a choice but go back to a country that they don't know. Until it takes less than 15-20 years to bring your family to the US from Latin America, and until we ditch the low quotas for that region, we're not going to solve the problem, and quite frankly it's racist and classist.

Nothing Earth shattering here, Jus Soli is outdated. It's my understanding that most first world countries that still recognize Jus Soli have modified the law specifically to state that the parents must be legal residents for their child to be a citizen.

Drolefille- If the primary non immigrant Visa holder gets deported, his dependents get deported as well, unless they have their own immigrant status and aren't present in the U.S due to the primary's status.

I think that amnesty isn't going to come cheap this time around, so laws like this popping up doesn't surprise me one bit. I think we are eventually going to have another amnesty, but we are going to see some very strict laws to go with them.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Nothing Earth shattering here, Jus Soli is outdated. It's my understanding that most first world countries that still recognize Jus Soli have modified the law specifically to state that the parents must be legal residents for their child to be a citizen.

Drolefille- If the primary non immigrant Visa holder gets deported, his dependents get deported as well, unless they have their own immigrant status and aren't present in the U.S due to the primary's status.

I think that amnesty isn't going to come cheap this time around, so laws like this popping up doesn't surprise me one bit. I think we are eventually going to have another amnesty, but we are going to see some very strict laws to go with them.

I disagree, I think it's part of what makes us a nation built of immigrants. I have friends whose parents were from Korea and who would not be US citizens today without the right of citizenship by being born here.

If the dependents were born here and are US citizens and it is found that the visa holder violated his visa at some point before the kids were born, do you revoke the child's citizenship?

As long as it is essentially impossible to immigrate here legally from a Spanish speaking country (that is, it takes an incredibly long time and the citizenship process costs thousands upon thousands of dollars) we will have this problem, laws or not. All that happens is you drive it further underground and put people in increasingly dangerous situations.

Regardless, the only way to change the constitution is an amendment, this law in Arizona will not do it and trying to pass this law on top of the also flawed "prove your citizenship" law smacks more of "oh noes the brown people" than anything else.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I disagree, I think it's part of what makes us a nation built of immigrants. I have friends whose parents were from Korea and who would not be US citizens today without the right of citizenship by being born here.

If the dependents were born here and are US citizens and it is found that the visa holder violated his visa at some point before the kids were born, do you revoke the child's citizenship?

In a perfect world, yes. Citizenship by fraud is way too common but because of Jus Solis anyone born here is a citizen and cannot be deported.

[/QUOTE] long as it is essentially impossible to immigrate here legally from a Spanish speaking country (that is, it takes an incredibly long time and the citizenship process costs thousands upon thousands of dollars)
[/QUOTE]
It's no more difficult for an Asian to immigrate here than it is for a South American. Yes, it does cost money to immigrate but we don't charge certain ethnicities more than others. I'd actually say Mexicans have the advantage over others when it comes to immigration because they can just say hell to the Visas and inspections and sneak over.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

It's no more difficult for an Asian to immigrate here than it is for a South American.

Actually that is definitely NOT true. I don't know about South Americans, but it is very difficult for Mexicans to immigrate here legally, which is why they chose to cross illegally.

Why should they wait 5-10 years (if they are lucky) to get a Visa, when they can just hop the fence? If the US wants to really calm the influx of immigrants, then maybe they should start assisting with the Visa process, instead of letting the corrupt Mexican government handle it.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by epchick

Actually that is definitely NOT true. I don't know about South Americans, but it is very difficult for Mexicans to immigrate here legally, which is why they chose to cross illegally.

Why should they wait 5-10 years (if they are lucky) to get a Visa, when they can just hop the fence? If the US wants to really calm the influx of immigrants, then maybe they should start assisting with the Visa process, instead of letting the corrupt Mexican government handle it.

Not exactly true, a lot of Mexicans are deemed ineligible to immigrate here by OUR STANDARDS, as are a lot of others in the world. The difference is people that are denied a Visa in China don't have the luxury of being able to walk across the border.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Not exactly true

Well I'll go ahead and let all the people i know who have been waiting years, some even decades that it isn't "exactly true" that their struggle is harder than most.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by epchick

Well I'll go ahead and let all the people i know who have been waiting years, some even decades that it isn't "exactly true" that their struggle is harder than most.

Do you honestly even know that to be true? What proof do you have that Mexicans end up waiting longer than any other Nationality to get issued a Visa? Just because you know a few Mexicans that have been waiting for their Visa doesn't mean that everyone else in the world is getting right on in. For every Mexican waiting their is an African, European, Asian waiting as well.

[Drolefille]

My friends lived here their whole lives, and they're only an example. We as a nation have historically and presently encouraged immigration and removing the right of citizenship to individuals born here discourages naturalization and encourages legal immigrants to return home, taking money and education with them. It would have been a bad idea in the past, it's a bad idea now.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

In a perfect world, yes. Citizenship by fraud is way too common but because of Jus Solis anyone born here is a citizen and cannot be deported.


It's no more difficult for an Asian to immigrate here than it is for a South American. Yes, it does cost money to immigrate but we don't charge certain ethnicities more than others. I'd actually say Mexicans have the advantage over others when it comes to immigration because they can just say hell to the Visas and inspections and sneak over.

I fail to see how fraud is related to the rights of children born in this country. They didn't commit fraudulent acts.

We charge a hell of a lot of money to everyone.

Originally Posted by epchick

Actually that is definitely NOT true. I don't know about South Americans, but it is very difficult for Mexicans to immigrate here legally, which is why they chose to cross illegally.

Why should they wait 5-10 years (if they are lucky) to get a Visa, when they can just hop the fence? If the US wants to really calm the influx of immigrants, then maybe they should start assisting with the Visa process, instead of letting the corrupt Mexican government handle it.

The last numbers I heard, even if you are in the US and you want to bring your family in, you're looking at 15+ years. And that's supposed to be the easiest part of the immigration process.

Currently individuals from Mexico are not even eligible for the random lottery which is only 55k visas per year.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

removing the right of citizenship to individuals born here discourages naturalization and encourages legal immigrants to return home, taking money and education with them. It would have been a bad idea in the past, it's a bad idea now.


The last numbers I heard, even if you are in the US and you want to bring your family in, you're looking at 15+ years. And that's supposed to be the easiest part of the immigration process.

Currently individuals from Mexico are not even eligible for the random lottery which is only 55k visas per year.

I don't see how this proposed law would encourage legal immigrants to return home when it doesn't affect them. AFAIK these proposed changes to the Jus Soli laws only affects children born to illegal immigrants. If you're here legally and have a child, that child will be a citizen.

For the 15+ years to get your family in, I'm not sure where you got that number but it's an either an exaggeration or you are talking about extreme cases. A buddy of mine just got his wife over and it took him about 5 months, and people who adopt overseas don't spend 15 years for their adopted baby to come over. Some petitions do get revoked because of legal issues such as prior deportation of said family member ( if you are deported you are banned from re- entering for a certain amount of time), which if thats the case then yes, it can take up to 15 years.