Obama orders end to the practice of denying same-sex partners hospital visits

[moe.ron]

Obama requested that the regulation make clear that any hospital receiving Medicare and Medicaid funding

Because Medicare and Medicaid are federal government programs. So, the federal government has the right to force those who receive those funds to adhere to their policies. The hospital also has the right to say no to the federal government policies by not accepting Medicare and Medicaids.

[DrPhil]

Regardless of how I feel about denying same-sex partners hospital visits, especially since we're talking about gov't funded programs, I must say this:

Obama's turning out to be a dictator whose legacy will not be what people assumed that it would be. He's simply not as great as people thought he was. He was simply better than what many considered to be the alternative (Obama vs. "dem people").

Some of the biggest dictators and exploitative leaders of the world have been great orators who were able to draw crowds and distract people with their speech.

FAIL.

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Regardless of how I feel about denying same-sex partners hospital visits, especially since we're talking about gov't funded programs, I must say this:

Obama's turning out to be a dictator whose legacy will not be what people assumed that it would be. He's simply not as great as people thought he was. He was simply better than what many considered to be the alternative (Obama vs. "dem people").

Some of the biggest dictators and exploitative leaders of the world have been great orators who were able to draw crowds and distract people with their speech.

FAIL.

I agree, this is how dictatorships are established.

First rule is to legislate things that are good for the people so the people will start giving you that trust.

But hey its not like he is running from an old play book. That was Bush II and the Patriot act.

The problem is people are so polarized by 24 hour news cycles they don't realize that both the right and the left are moving closer and closer to being ruled by the fringe.

At the same time though since it is my tax dollars and I agree with this stance if a hospital is receiving my tax dollars they should adhere to what I believe in. Just like on the other side, I don't want my tax dollars funding abortions.

[DaemonSeid]

I'm failing to see how this is a dictatorship in the making.

I mean this happening after years of having administrations that wouldn't even let same sex partners even manage each others' insurance or be exexutors of their care, segregated hospitals, even denying interracil couples the right to visit their sick loved ones.

So, someone please explain to me how this anti discrimination step is a bad move?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I'm failing to see how this is a dictatorship in the making.

I mean this happening after years of having administrations that wouldn't even let same sex partners even manage each others' insurance or be exexutors of their care, segregated hospitals, even denying interracil couples the right to visit their sick loved ones.

So, someone please explain to me how this anti discrimination step is a bad move?

I'm pretty sure Hitler made a similar decree at some point.

But really... I ask again. Was this even really a problem? Are we now just scoring free points with key constituencies?

I don't know whether this is a problem. I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt, have quite a few gay friends and have never heard of anything like this happening here.

I really have zero problem with this rule as a matter of course, but does the President even have the power to do this? Isn't the spending power solely under Congress' control?

I guess to find out, we'll have to have a hospital who really wants to keep gay partners apart and is willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to protect their right to do so.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm pretty sure Hitler made a similar decree at some point.

But really... I ask again. Was this even really a problem? Are we now just scoring free points with key constituencies?

I don't know whether this is a problem. I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt, have quite a few gay friends and have never heard of anything like this happening here.

I really have zero problem with this rule as a matter of course, but does the President even have the power to do this? Isn't the spending power solely under Congress' control?

I guess to find out, we'll have to have a hospital who really wants to keep gay partners apart and is willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to protect their right to do so.

I don't see this as a problem but then on the other hand Virginia just rolled back Civil Rights for homosexuals.

Unrelated, I know, but it just goes to show some people have certain disregard when this comes into question

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm pretty sure Hitler made a similar decree at some point.

But really... I ask again. Was this even really a problem? Are we now just scoring free points with key constituencies?

I don't know whether this is a problem. I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt, have quite a few gay friends and have never heard of anything like this happening here.

I've never heard of the hospital preventing someone from seeing his/her same sex partner. Usually it's a next-of-kin, like a homophobic parent or jealous child from a previous heterosexual relationship, who's raising hell.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I've never heard of the hospital preventing someone from seeing his/her same sex partner. Usually it's a next-of-kin, like a homophobic parent or jealous child from a previous heterosexual relationship, who's raising hell.

Gotcha. Yeah, I can definitely imagine that.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I've never heard of the hospital preventing someone from seeing his/her same sex partner. Usually it's a next-of-kin, like a homophobic parent or jealous child from a previous heterosexual relationship, who's raising hell.

Yep.

My mom told me a sad story about a gay patient of hers (she's a nurse) who was being taken off of a ventilator after being declared braindead following a serious motorcycle accident.

He had been with his partner for 15 years (no civil unions here and Partner was all the family he had living in the area. Partner visited him everyday for a week. However, he was not Patient's legal next-of-kin. He never made Partner his NOK because he didn't want to open up the convo and upset his parents (and of course no one ever thinks they'll end up in a coma).

Well, Patient's PARENTS finally get into town to see their son and make decisions regarding taking him off of life support. They made that decision, and not only did not tell Partner they were planning to do that (they didn't have to, but still, how awful to go up for a visit and find out that way) but told the hospital that Partner was not allowed in Patient's room as he was dying.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I've never heard of the hospital preventing someone from seeing his/her same sex partner. Usually it's a next-of-kin, like a homophobic parent or jealous child from a previous heterosexual relationship, who's raising hell.

Oh it certainly has happened and was very common early in the gay rights movement and in the early days of the AIDS epidemic. I'm very good friends with a gay couple (actually following them to Arizona.) One of them is a psychologist who specializes in couples therapy. He sees mostly gay couples but has been practicing in NYC since the 60s. He has told me so many sad stories of couples who couldn't visit their partners as they died in hospitals from complications of AIDS. They also couldn't inherit and often lost their homes after the death of their loved ones.

I do wonder what hospitals are still doing this, but there are still many catholic hospitals out there and other religious institution associated hospitals, as well as hospitals in very conservatives areas that may be refusing to let people visit their partners in the hospital. Just because we don't know about cases doesn't mean it still doesn't occur.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Was this even really a problem? I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt, have quite a few gay friends and have never heard of anything like this happening here.

I have never heard of it happening either. Hospitals have long since relaxed their policies about visitation. I thought the only stringent requirements they had related to whether visitors are sick and may spread disease to the patient.

[mary_bubbles]

Same sex partners aren't wanting to be married to take a vow in front of God but for all the equal rights married couples are allowed to have. I do see that it does discriminate for not just same sex but for straight common law people. A marriage is just a written contract with the government. I however don't agree that he should force hospitals to do this because what about our Christian hospitals. If they are forced to serve same sex partners then next will be abortions. People are only supporting this because it is equal rights but no matter what it is the government can't force rules for non public places. If this is allowed how long before a private Christian school can't have a Biblical class? It doesn't matter if things are right or wrong in society if the government is able to interfere.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm pretty sure Hitler made a similar decree at some point.

Just about the only decree Hitler made about Gays put them in the camps along side the Jews.

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I'm failing to see how this is a dictatorship in the making.

I mean this happening after years of having administrations that wouldn't even let same sex partners even manage each others' insurance or be exexutors of their care, segregated hospitals, even denying interracil couples the right to visit their sick loved ones.

So, someone please explain to me how this anti discrimination step is a bad move?

The 7 Commandments of Animalism.

The seventh and most important being, All animals are equal.

- George Orwell's Animal Farm.

I know personally I always raise an eyebrow when the government tries to legislate morality. Does that mean that it will cause the rise of the Anti-Christ and many years of sorrow? No I doubt it because our government currently has a lot of check and balances to prevent it. Doesn't mean it isn't impossible though, so I will raise an eyebrow and always question, "Why do you feel it is necessary to force this issue." Even if on the surface it is a good thing and something I agree with.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I'm failing to see how this is a dictatorship in the making.

Me either.

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm pretty sure Hitler made a similar decree at some point.

Godwin's Law!!!!

I kid.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Is this really a problem?

I don't know. I've had some understanding that lots of hospitals have a "relatives only rule," at least in some cases. That would exclude partners in states that don't recognize gay marriage, which is, of course, the vast majority of states. I'd be interested in whether AOIIAngel and some of the other medical prople around here see it as addressing a real problem or just as window-dressing, or some of both.